Freestyle pistol

[noremf]

Don't post much but do follow. "Well seasoned" shooter and in a place where there are no matches.

I have an opportunity to purchase a 1966 Pardini Freestyle pistol for a good price. One owner.

My question is whether or not anyone thinks or has experience with these types of stocks etc. shooting in the Creedmore position. Not so good offhand anymore but still can can use that position and have my own ranges.

Any help would be appreciated.

private email if that suits you better is

gjkohlman@att.net

George

[xterrettx]

This is question I have been asking my self all week after watch some of the mens freestyle running up to the olympics. They seem like they would cross over in to IHMSA really easily. Is anyone using them?

[benenglish]

What is a "freestyle" pistol? Are y'all talking about pistols suitable for Mens 50M Pistol, formerly called the "Free Pistol" event?

I can give you some insight on those, if you like.

[xterrettx]

yea sorry for the miscommunication

[benenglish]

OK, free pistols are very high quality single-shot .22 LR pistols for shooting offhand, one-handed, at a bullseye 50 meters away. Something like this has been a part of the Olympics for the entire modern era; the founder of the modern Olympics was a pistol shooter. The pistols themselves are used almost exclusively in semi-enclosed firing points (technically outside, but not really) and are treated like fine jewels.

As for their use in silhouette, there are several things working against them.

First, they tend to be delicate. Blowing sand at fully-exposed outdoor ranges is not something they're designed to handle. New ones frequently have things like light-beam safeties that check to make sure there's a finger inside the trigger guard before allowing the pistol to fire. Complex, delicate mechanisms are not ideal for silhouette.

Second, since they are intended for offhand use, they tend to be very light. That's not only unnecessary but actually a disadvantage for shooting from laying-on-the-ground positions as silhouette shooters tend to do.

Third, again since they are for offhand use, they tend to have extreme grip rake angles, far more than a Luger and nowhere near the sort of upright angle of most U.S. pistols. If you grew up shooting 1911s, they just feel weird.

Fourth, they tend to come with barrels nowhere near the max length limit for unlimited use. Thus, the sight radius is less than it could be and they are more difficult to safely handle in position.

Fifth, they tend to come without anything like a forend. There are notable exceptions but most free pistols simply have a pencil-thin barrel hanging out front. That sort of arrangement doesn't tolerate being pressed against a calf too well.

Sixth and finally, they are simply non-traditional in this sport. The reasons go way back. They were (apparently, based on several things, including testimony to me from several people who knew him) hated by Elgin Gates and the rules were specifically written to discriminate against them. They should have been the kings of production. After all, they are production-line guns, produced in numbers higher than some U.S. guns. But the rules simply state, flat out, that they go in unlimited. Also, remember that for the longest time, adjustable grips (which all these things have) were illegal. (That rule even came into existence in a manner that contravened the rules at the time. Back then, the entire rules were printed in each issue of The Silhouette and no rule changes were allowed except by membership vote. However, the rule against adjustable grips just magically appeared in the rules one day.) I was mouthing off about this at the Uvalde range, circa 1978 or so, when no less than Skip Talbot overheard me and told me "Give it up. Elgin hates adjustable grips." Even today, the Hammerli 120 Sport Pistol has been ruled as belonging in Unlimited, despite the fact that according to the rules it's clearly a production pistol. The powers-that-be in this sport have *always* (actively in the early years, by neglect in more recent years) discriminated against European pistols and, frankly, nothing is more European than free pistols.

So they never gained a foothold. Instead, some folks (Anschutz, most successfully on the factory side; Calfee, most spectacularly on the custom side) produced heavier, longer pistols of a more traditional-for-silhouette profile. Those pistols were better for silhouette shooting. They weren't as exquisitely made nor did they possess the magical balance of a good free pistol but they were actually better for silhouette shooting from freestyle positions.

Thus, free pistols for silhouette shooting simply became a non-entity.

You could probably turn a free pistol into a killer silhouette pistol with some modifications and a new, longer barrel. Unfortunately, you'd wind up spending more than an Exemplar costs to get a pistol that doesn't perform as well for silhouette shooting from the freestyle positions.

Where standing is concerned, free pistols might be workable now that there are a couple of small bore unlimited standing disciplines. Again, though, the cost of adapting a free pistol to a high-rise mount (as well as all the other negatives outlined above) is such that there's no point. An Exemplar can do better for less money.

For all those reasons, nobody (that I know of) bothers.

Of course, I could be wrong. If there's somebody out there winning with a modern free pistol, I'd love to hear about it.

hth,

Ben

PS and Fun Fact of the Day: *ALL* single shot .22s are free pistols according to ISSF rules. Every T/C, MOA, RPM, etc. that you've ever seen used at a match in smallbore production is technically in violation of the "free pistols go in unlimited" rule at VI.B.7. It's just that no one enforces the rule unless the pistol was manufactured in Europe.

[noremf]

Thanks for the reply guys. Have not bought the weapon (Pardini single shot) but might not now. I don't own any weapons either myself or my 11 (6-24) grandkids don't shoot and I have a feeling that shooting standing would be the way you would have to shoot that gun to enjoy it and having a weapon that is kinda limited, position wise, does not really interest me much. I have my own ranges and 8 of the grandkids are here each weekday and they all love to shoot.

I do have one freestyle weapon that can be used in the freestyle position and I shoot it that way quite often. Looks like this.



Tell circa 1910-1915.

Like I said, I don't shoot in competition anymore, just mess around but I do have my own ranges, 110M and 650M and complete IHMSA sets of targets, .22 and big bore along with swingers so I can shoot whatever I want, when I want, and don't have to worry about the rules. Just whether or not I or my grandkids have fun and hit what we shoot at.

Thanks again.

George

[benenglish]

George,

If you're just shooting for fun on your own range, I strongly recommend you try an older free pistol. Some of them were reasonably stout (look for a falling-block design with a mechanical, not electronic, trigger) and they are such a joy to shoot off-hand you'll find yourself fantasizing about standing on a podium with a medal around your neck. Outside of the rules and pressures of competition, those pistols are just more fun than I can communicate if your idea of fun is actually hitting the target. Accuracy at that level never fails to bring a smile to my face. I have several historic free pistols and shooting them never fails to make me feel that my range time was worthwhile.

The only drawback is that they aren't suitable for competition...but if that's not a concern for you, then a reliable old free pistol is simply a joy to own and shoot.

Ben

[35isit]

When I started in 1986 our State Director and his wife shot a Hammerli free pistol in unlimited. I almost bought one (wish I had now). They done quite well with it. I own a Drulov 75 free pistol my wife and I both got into AA unlimited with it. When I finally went totally blind I installed a scope on it and got myself into AAA. The best of my recollection the Hammerlis had 11 inch barrels and the Drulov has about a 9 inch barrel. They are not very common, but they do work. No one can fault their accuracy, triggers or factory sights.