Practical Hunter Rules Proposal

[Shoot2Thrill]

Here is a Practical Hunter Rules Proposal from Jim Fields. Please respectfully discuss.

New Practical Hunter Proposal
SUBMITTED BY JIM FIELDS – Region IV Director – 405-203-1268 – Date – 2-23-20
As most board members know my proposal for red dot sights, which I submitted in 2017, was allowed to expire w/o being voted on allowing red dot sights on revolvers & production guns.
Reason for this proposal was to level the playing field for older shooters, who can no longer compete against much younger shooters with an iron sight set-up & also increasing entries in both categories. Most all shooting disciplines across the world have adopted red dot sights over the past several years.
There’s an old saying, “If you don’t change with the times you are going to die on the vine”
My reasoning behind this again, was to bring back some older shooters who have quit our fantastic sport over the past few years, plus several of us who are now struggling with eye problems & increase the entries in both production & revolver classes, which have steadily declined over the past several years, & most all of us will agree with that.
So, here is my proposal, I know, & I’m well aware I will catch some flack about increasing a couple more classes, but here is.
Add Two Practical Hunter revolver classes - PH .22 & PH Long Range BB, allowing red dot sights in both classes. (1) Weight limits not to exceed four pounds six ounces. (2) Overall length same as production,18 inches. (3) Red dot sights, with a power limit not to exceed 1 ½ power, which is what most manufacturers use. Iron sight shooters may compete in these two new classes if they so desire.
Some of you may or may not be aware of this, but the Practical Hunter category was a direct result of a proposal I made several years ago & it is one of the main reasons that Oklahoma City Gun Club is averaging over 60 entries per monthly matches & that number will only increase at our club as well as other clubs across the country with the addition of these two new revolver classes, no doubt in my mind whatsoever. The PH category has literally exploded at OKC over the past two years.

[260 Striker]

Jim/Doug, I would favor going back to Jim's first proposal allowing red dot (and blue and green) dot sights limited to 1X (maybe 1.5X) for regular Production and Revolver categories. I think that would be simpler that adding additional PH classes. I'm going to be 74 in a couple of weeks so completely understand Jim's comments about eye issues. This issue is just about the same as the aftermarket sight issues several years ago. All the nay sayers said people would use aftermarket sights and immediately jump several classes. We all know that did NOT happen. The dot issue is catering to older shooters to keep them going a few more years but look around at most matches and you see a lot of gray hair, if they still have hair. These dot sights are NOT going to give a big advantage over iron sights. I think Jim's original proposal would have been adopted had there been quorums at the last few annual meetings. That is something else we need to address. We need to change the way rule changes are submitted and especially how they get voted into the rules. If we keep having low attendance at annual meeting no new changes will ever get voted on. Also think do we want 50 or less shooters at an annual meeting voting for all the members. NOT ME!!! But that is another issue. Lets go back and accept Jim's original dot sight changes. I would suggest adding also green and blue dots to the original proposal. I am red/green color blind and red dots don't look clear to me. Blue dots work best for me.

[braud357]

As a shooter who has shot open sights, red dot optics, and scopes, I cannot see where a red dot would improve my "production" scores any - if at all ! My eyesight has diminished to the point that my reality is this - unless I am shooting a scope I simply cannot see what I am shooting at ! A non-magnifying sighting device will only help me see the "sights", not my intended target. I applaud Jim's effort to try to encourage shooters to "come back", but we have to face the hard reality that most, if not all of these former shooters have moved on to more accommodating shooting disciplines or other interests. I have spoken to several former shooters and asked them what would it take for them to return to IHMSA and handgun silhouette. Their answer was this - they were simply not interested, and have moved on to other hobbies. The one problem I see with Practical Hunter are the rules concerning scopes - specifically the magnification limit of 6X. I thought that this was supposed to be kind of a "run what you have" category. If trying to encourage participation from handgun hunters, your are shooting a hole in the bottom of the boat by telling these shooters that they cannot use their Leupold 2.5 - 8X or Burris 2 - 7X or 3 - 12x scope (as examples) to its full potential. We have had to "explain" the logic of this to several potential shooters and received a very poor response. If I hunted with my scoped handguns, I would personally like to have and use the most "X's" I could for the conditions. I think that the limits on scopes should be removed. I do have a scoped revolver that I might like to use in Practical Hunter, and it wears a Leupold 2.5 - 8X - and I would like to use it to its full potential. My opinion is this - I personally do not see that adding red dots will help the Production and Revolver classes enough to make a any difference in participation - we had zero interest in it at our matches. I would like to see the scope limits removed from the Practical Hunter categories ! I have stated this position before, and I still think that it is true. In IHMSA we already have classes to accommodate visually-challenged shooters such as myself - UAS, US, Field Pistol Any-Sight, and Practical Hunter. That is enough !! Respectfully, we do not need revolver classes in PH ! Especially if it was limited to red dot optics - no thank you, I will stick with my scoped TC !! (My opinion !) -- Philip Braud

[bkraft]

I'm all for Jim's original proposal of dot sights of no more than 1.5 X in all production and revolver classes was from the jump. Someone worried about records set before the change, look at baseball its records are broken in two the latter with the longer seasons etc is simply called the Modern Era. Guys we are not really in a position to quibble about 1.5x magnification. A lot of ranges I shot at I'm one of the younger guys there and I'll be 63 in Aug.
We as an organization should do what it takes to get the most people shooting as long as they can. Or IHMSA is in very real danger of fading away.

[high standard 40]

.
We as an organization should do what it takes to get the most people shooting as long as they can. Or IHMSA is in very real danger of fading away.

Hard to argue with this.

[wheelgun7360]

I agree Charlie!!!

[260 Striker]

I think the early days of IHMSA were strictly about being competitive. We had trophies and even payback when winning classes. Lots of shooters shot just to win. Now IHMSA has become a shoot for fun type of match. Do shooters need to win every time they shoot and is it important to beat everyone else in your class? With the low number of ranges left today may interested shooters have to travel for hours just to shoot. Do we need to tell a shooter with poor eyesight you can't use a dot sight since you might beat another shooter in a class? What are we trying to promote today as an organization? Do we want the restrictions we had years ago to turn shooters away or do we want to tell them bring any gun you have and we will find a class for you to shoot? I sometimes wonder if we would be better off just identifying guns by their type, Production, Unlimited, etc. then not even having classes. Match reports would then list shooters top to bottom by category and scores and the heck with classes. I am shooting against myself each match. I don't care if I am the only one in my class or there are many in my class and I come in dead last. I at least got to shoot steel. I know there is a need for rules but I bet if you go to any of the local matches today you will see guns that are not being checked and as long as the shooters are safe, they get to shoot. I know we have several shooters who attend our matches and don't even want to join IHMSA so they shoot as non-members. We are more than happy to have their entry fees to keep us going and they get to enjoy shooting steel with guns that may or may not be IHMSA legal. In some respects we need to lighten up and encourage shooters NOT discourage shooters. I also think some people are worried they will get beat by a shooter with a dot scope. If they are afraid of getting beat maybe they are too serious about our sport.

[JACKIE40X40]

I think the early days of IHMSA were strictly about being competitive. We had trophies and even payback when winning classes. Lots of shooters shot just to win. Now IHMSA has become a shoot for fun type of match. Do shooters need to win every time they shoot and is it important to beat everyone else in your class? With the low number of ranges left today may interested shooters have to travel for hours just to shoot. Do we need to tell a shooter with poor eyesight you can't use a dot sight since you might beat another shooter in a class? What are we trying to promote today as an organization? Do we want the restrictions we had years ago to turn shooters away or do we want to tell them bring any gun you have and we will find a class for you to shoot? I sometimes wonder if we would be better off just identifying guns by their type, Production, Unlimited, etc. then not even having classes. Match reports would then list shooters top to bottom by category and scores and the heck with classes. I am shooting against myself each match. I don't care if I am the only one in my class or there are many in my class and I come in dead last. I at least got to shoot steel. I know there is a need for rules but I bet if you go to any of the local matches today you will see guns that are not being checked and as long as the shooters are safe, they get to shoot. I know we have several shooters who attend our matches and don't even want to join IHMSA so they shoot as non-members. We are more than happy to have their entry fees to keep us going and they get to enjoy shooting steel with guns that may or may not be IHMSA legal. In some respects we need to lighten up and encourage shooters NOT discourage shooters. I also think some people are worried they will get beat by a shooter with a dot scope. If they are afraid of getting beat maybe they are too serious about our sport.

Agree 100%! As far as I know,we don’t have any non members shooting,but we do,let them shoot free the first time & if necessary provide any equipment.

[dhagerty40x]

Ok, I have a couple of things that need discussion.

First, We keep wanting to add more categories to try to accommodate older shooters. As it stands now, we have 29 different categories between BB,SB, FP, Air, PH and U500! if we want to add more categories, it may be time to start deleting other categories.

Second, Why is it we are never trying to attract new shooters? I think it may be too late as talking to some new shooters, The biggest detractor is we have too many Categories! Younger shooters are still on limited budgets and still raising a Family. They have limited resources to spend on sports like ours. This many categories scare them away to other shooting sports.

But, without new shooters, this sport will eventually die.

I have nothing against adding a scoped revolver catregory, but we need to remove other categories to accomodate the new categories.

and now, I found a mistake on the Air pistol score card, USIS is missing!

[JACKIE40X40]

Ok, I have a couple of things that need discussion.

First, We keep wanting to add more categories to try to accommodate older shooters. As it stands now, we have 29 different categories between BB,SB, FP, Air, PH and U500! if we want to add more categories, it may be time to start deleting other categories.

Second, Why is it we are never trying to attract new shooters? I think it may be too late as talking to some new shooters, The biggest detractor is we have too many Categories! Younger shooters are still on limited budgets and still raising a Family. They have limited resources to spend on sports like ours. This many categories scare them away to other shooting sports.

But, without new shooters, this sport will eventually die.

I have nothing against adding a scoped revolver catregory, but we need to remove other categories to accomodate the new categories.

and now, I found a mistake on the Air pistol score card, USIS is missing!

No biggie,can’t it be hand written on the cards?