ihmsa forums

With so many companies making conversion pieces for guns, I have some letter-of-the-law questions for guns in the Production (mostly SB and FP) categories.
Section VI-A
1. A pistol or revolver that is or was a manufacturer’s catalog product and is or was readily available to the general public.
2. The Evaluation Committee shall have the responsibility for determining the category in which any new model handgun will compete. Handguns and/or accessories will be allowed to compete in Production categories if so determined by the Evaluation Committee to meet Production handgun rules and requirements; otherwise, such equipment shall be eligible to compete in Unlimited categories only.A) All design changes and/or modifications to a Production handgun must be submitted to the Evaluation Committee for approval prior to being used in Production category competition.
B) All new equipment, design changes, and modifications must be approved at least 90 days prior to the annual International Championships to be allowed for use in that competition.
...
6. The handgun must be complete at all times in form, finish and mechanical function as manufactured. Except otherwise allowed by these rules, only internal and external parts that are the original handgun manufacturer’s standard catalog items for the particular model of handgun may be used for repair or replacement.
A) Where original replacement parts are no longer available for the handgun in question, a broken or unserviceable part may be replaced by a newly made one provided that the newly made part is identical in material, form, finish, dimension and configuration to the original part.
B) The only main part, i.e. frame, cylinder, action or barrel that may be replaced is the barrel so long as it conforms to A) above.

My questions are the legality of these configurations in Production categories:
1. Volquartsen upper (FFL product) on Ruger Mark lower.
2. Kimber 22 conversion on 45ACP grip frame
3. 40 S&W barrel on 357 Sig semi.

Thanks.
Pat

Answers, and this is my interpretation - is that 1 & 2 are not eligible for Production. #3 would probably not qualify, unless the gun was sold and advertised as a "switch caliber". Again, my interpretation !

Number 1 MIGHT be allowed if the barrel was built to standard Ruger specs. I also suspect, since the MK10 (10" barrels) are no longer produced, you might be able to get a Volquartsen 10" barrel and MIGHT be legal on Ruger receiver since you can no longer get 10" barrels from Ruger. Since aftermarket barrels are allowed on TCs, me personally, I don't see why a Volquartsen 10" barrel would not be allowed. I'm like Philip, these are just MY opinions and is another very gray area of our rules. The Volquartsen barrel would have to be a standard bull barrel and not special fluting to at least match the standard Ruger barrel. Interesting question. I would like to know what the rules committee says and if they do not approve, why. This is the same concept as aftermarket TC barrels. Also, since Ruger autos have a combined barrel and upper receiver, it is impossible for the IHMSA shooter to change the barrel without changing the receiver on a Ruger auto so this should be allowed where the TCs can switch just the barrels. As quoted in one of the other rules, if the parts are no longer manufactured by the original company then aftermarket replacements can be used so this is another reason why a Volquartsen upper with a 10" barrel should be allowed. Bummer that Ruger will not offer these barrels again. Again, just my opinion. I'm just a regular member and not an IHMSA politician.

I agree with Philip. I had a 10" AMT receiver/barrel mounted on a Ruger MKII grip frame.That made it an Unlimited gun.

80X80, I'm guessing that AMT barrel was probably tried when Ruger was still offering their own 10" guns. Now that Ruger no longer produces the MK10 does that now mean an aftermarket barrel/receiver can now be used to build a gun similar to a standard MK10? I'm wondering if the rule about using aftermarket parts that match standard spec Ruger MK10s. Just wondering if the replacement rule applies now. Still going to end up with a 10" Ruger MK either way.

To some degree I think it is up to the individual match directors as to what is allowed.
You could possibly be allowed to shoot a "gray area gun" but it might not count for record.
Just such a situation exists at the OKC matches. After the trial period expired on red dot sights for senior shooters in Revolver and Production, anyone shooting in this situation can continue to do so as "non-sanctioned".
I shoot a red dot in Small Bore Production and personally I have absolutely no problem with my scores not going into the books. I'm out for the fun and fellowship. We're not shooting for car titles.
So, if you can live with a similar situation, discuss it with your match director.

260 Striker wrote:80X80, I'm guessing that AMT barrel was probably tried when Ruger was still offering their own 10" guns.

Yes, that was back in 1986.

Now that Ruger no longer produces the MK10 does that now mean an aftermarket barrel/receiver can now be used to build a gun similar to a standard MK10? I'm wondering if the rule about using aftermarket parts that match standard spec Ruger MK10s.

That, I couldn't say.

when in question on the conversion and after market parts and barrels, one needs to contact Dell Taylor for he is the rules committee chairman and he can say yea or nea on your questions.

As far as "switch caliber" semi-autos go I think they should be allowed if the original manufacturer offered a gun in the caliber that was "switched to". After all the ultimate switch caliber guns are TCs. If someone wants to put a Kimber 22 conversion into a 45acp, it should be legal. After all, a person could buy a 45 framed gun set up as 22lr from the manufacturer. I wonder if a Glock 40 converted to 357 Sig would be any more of an advantage than a stock 357 Sig Glock. Not that either one would be good to use on FP!!!!! There are times when I think we get our underwear in knots about some of our rules. Back to the Ruger MK10 example. If someone wanted to shoot a 10" Ruger MK but could not find one at a reasonable price then let them build one that still conforms to the original MK10 specs. Oh well, these type of issues will never be resolved. Just let these people shoot and have fun. We are slowly (rapidly?) taking the fun out of IHMSA. Our matches are not life and death issues but shooters getting together to bust some steel.

260 Striker wrote:As far as "switch caliber" semi-autos go I think they should be allowed if the original manufacturer offered a gun in the caliber that was "switched to". After all the ultimate switch caliber guns are TCs. If someone wants to put a Kimber 22 conversion into a 45acp, it should be legal. After all, a person could buy a 45 framed gun set up as 22lr from the manufacturer. I wonder if a Glock 40 converted to 357 Sig would be any more of an advantage than a stock 357 Sig Glock. Not that either one would be good to use on FP!!!!! There are times when I think we get our underwear in knots about some of our rules. Back to the Ruger MK10 example. If someone wanted to shoot a 10" Ruger MK but could not find one at a reasonable price then let them build on that still conforms to the original MK10 specs. Oh well, these type of issues will never be resolved. Just let these people shoot and have fun. We are slowly (rapidly?) taking the fun out of IHMSA. Our matches are not life and death issues but shooters getting together to bust some steel.

No pun intended, but I agree that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in regards to rules. Yes, there most definitely needs to be rules but they need to change with the times and with the current state of the firearms industry. This isn't the old days of no more than half a dozen categories. Where would this sport be without scopes and rim-fire? Totally gone most likely. The "purists" need to lighten up a little (or a lot) in my opinion. Just my nickels worth.