New thoughts to build IHMSA

[IHMSA80x80]

I agree with Charlie. Put "tactical" in IHMSA and I am out. I'll shoot my own steel target matches and not give a penny to HQ. There is enough of that "tacticool" stuff everywhere, we don't need it here. Our club would not care to attract those shooters here only want to expend 350 rounds with multiple magazine changes and playing acrobatics, all in 1.5 seconds. I was a match director for 17 years here, and assisted other match directors for just about all of my 29 years of silhouette. We have tried everything reasonable to attract new members. Few if any have joined. We can't even get our own club members to come to the matches. Our Kentucky matches are almost exclusively Ohio and Indiana shooters.

Some say we have too many classes. That is BS. No one can shoot more than 4-5 entries at a single day's match, and that is assuming he doesn't spot for anyone, or help the match director run the match. Doesn't matter if there are 21 classes to shoot in. The additional categories were all added at various times in the past to attempt to bring in new members...rules were changed to bring in new members. It didn't work. You bring a gun and shoot. The match director will tell you what class you will compete in, and then only with others of similar abilities.

And don't even think of reinstating a Production price limit like we had before. It isn't about how much the gun costs, it's the shooter's abilities. If potential new members come to a match to observe, and see all the expensive guns the long-established shooters are using, and they never come back because they think THEY will need to spend all that money for IHMSA, then the folks talking to them about the game are not doing a very good job of explaining things about shooter abilities.

Sorry about being cranky, but I AM getting old and it is allowed.

[mugs]

I don't know about old,blind,deaf and can't walk. I'm only 74 i've got a few years left. I'm 100% with what Charlie, Richard and Dean said.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[braud357]

IHMSA - International HANDGUN Metallic Silhouette Association. This is what we were established to be, and this is what got me to join in 1980. I can hear some now - "another old fart living in the past !" I was 26 y/o when I joined IHMSA, I am now 60 y/o. When is the last time you saw a shooter in their 20's at a match ? Me, and the many shooters that were active then, were raised in a different world than the one that exists today. I consider Jerry to be a friend, and I appreciate his opinion. But Charlie, Dean, and Richard have hit the proverbial "nail on the head". Adding rifle shooters may help the local clubs (it has helped ours), but it will do ZERO to grow IHMSA. These stated opinions are not negative in nature; they are (sadly), factual. I will stand up for us "old farts" and respectfully state to the newer shooters that they have no idea what it used to be like. Local, monthly matches with over 125 entries were the norm. So, what happened to all of these shooters? Well, many have passed away, many more have gone on to other hobbies and pastimes. As Richard said - this game requires dedication, something that the majority of today's gun owners lack. No disrespect intended ! The generation that I come from was raised in the woods, and WW2 was recent history in our eyes. Guns and shooting was something we could enjoy in our back yards ! Society has changed - and there is NOTHING that can change that. The only thing we can do is to encourage any new shooters that may come along, and try to continue what we enjoy. As Charlie said, I have ZERO interest in tactical, scenario-based shooting sports, and intend no insult to those that do. IDPA, IPSC, and SASS is thriving without me. I will continue to shoot IHMSA and handgun silhouette for as long as I am able. We have our niche in the shooting sports - remember how prevalent Bullseye shooting used to be ? We are sadly traveling the same road ! I agree with Charlie, Dean, and Richard - we are what we are, and we should continue to embrace that. Reinventing the wheel, so to speak - will not change anything !

[35isit]

I agree with Phillip, Dean, Richard and Charlie. IHMSA is for us the long range handgunners. Although each range must decide what keeps them in business. It may be tactical rifles for Jerry, bordello for someone else. All are or can be fun side matches even for the last of us die hard shooters, which I know Jerry is one. We all have to remember that part of the reason many clubs are no longer shooting is because of the lack of participation. I have said many times it is as easy to have a match to the range's capacity as it is to just a few.

[DaveC]

I’m not advocating the wholesale abandonment of what IHMSA was and is after all accuracy, reactive targets and a good time is IHMSA to most of us but to keep all those things obviously means something has to change. I really enjoy IHMSA shooting and because of three match directors here in Georgia I’m confident I can continue to shoot as long as I’m physically able (I'm almost 70) but I’m also absolutely sure that my kids will not be able to shoot what we call IHMSA unless/until the old folks allow some changes.

All you have to do is look and I think you’ll find that 1) lots of new shooters are interested in long range accuracy and 2) 90% of today’s new shooters are pistol shooters.

Today long range precision shooting is the in thing all across the country but IHMSA isn’t riding that wave. Whether you call it tactical or accuracy doesn’t really matter but our clubs ‘tactical’ rifle matches are well attended as are all the 22lr rifle and pistol matches. There a lot of new shooters at all these matches but they don’t show up or don’t return to IHMSA matches at the club. Why?

First they don’t see IHMSA as worth the effort - not really relevant in our part of the world anymore. Hunting is a dying sport with quail hunts at $500 to $1,000 a day most new shooters never consider hunting. In Georgia we are overrun with deer and pigs, public land is readily available but new shooters just don’t hunt. I would never change the target shapes but the focus of our advertising could easily become total accuracy – we are the accuracy game for practical shooters – if you want to prove you are an accurate shot you have to shoot IHMSA.

Second, cost. It’s not the annual membership cost that’s the problem, it cost me more than $50 in gas to attend two matches a month but cost is an issue. Growth in classes hasn’t addressed the equipment cost for new shooters because the folks making the class changes are also the leaders in the arms race.

With IHMSA today new shooters come to watch a match and they see pistols that cost 6-10 times what they paid for their Ruger MK-III or 10/22, my open sights cost more than a MK-III. They are told you need anything but what you have to be competitive. At our club that same potential shooter shows up at the monthly “metal match” and uses that MK-III to be pretty competitive, have a good time and next time they bring their kids. We all see the growth of IDPA and Glock at our local club and drive further and further to shoot IHMSA matches if we can find one.

So what’s the answer?

Jerry Stringham is right on target – “And One last thought and observation. Every range we visit, the match directors offer some type of 22 LR match as a side discipline to generate interest and income. I believe the 22LR rifle match is our saving grace and should be considered as a new IHMSA discipline. AUTO and BOLT, IRON SIGHTS and OPTIC. " TACTICAL"”. And, I’d support him if he would write and present a rules change for a 3 position rifle class in rim fire.

[high standard 40]

I'm not really against anyone shooting a rifle alongside the pistol shooters. In fact, we have the Smallbore NRA Cowboy Rifle silhouette shooters join us at our match each month. We have only done that this year so it may be too early to see if we will get any crossover shooters. We have not so far. It is a good fit for us because it has effectively doubled participation at our matches which increases our revenue flow and helps us keep our matches going on a local level. It does absolutely nothing to help grow IHMSA, at least not so far. If it were proposed that we add a 22LR rifle category to IHMSA, I would not stand in opposition to it as long as it can be structured to run seamlessly with our current match format. I will not be a party to anything "tactical". IHMSA has changed a lot since I first started shooting way back in 1980. Many different categories have been added and a lot of rules have been laxed. But one aspect has not changed. The root basis of our sport. We shoot the same targets at the same distances with the same "load and shoot" time limits. This is what I don't want to see changed. If a rifle shooter or for that matter a pistol shooter want to blow his five shots in 3 seconds I say more power to him, he can do that if he wants to......as long as it is done safely. But I don't think even allowing that will grow IHMSA. For the people with the "tactical" mindset it's all about high rates of fire, not so much pinpoint long range accuracy. For them to be allowed to shoot only 5 shots in 2 minutes would bore them and they would soon drift away. Once again let me say that adding rifles within our match format may add a few shooters and help keep IHMSA going, but I for one don't really believe it will.

[260 Striker]

It sounds as if many clubs are holding "side matches". These entries don't need to be IHMSA entries and help bring additional revenue to the local clubs. What would be nice would be to "donate" one dollar to IHMSA for each of those side matches to help build the IHMSA coffers. Will this grow our sport, NO but will at least give our finances a chance to rebound. The dilemma is these side matches are probably doing more good to keep the local matches in business too so we don't want to divert too much money to IHMSA in order to keep the local clubs solvent too. I still say IHMSA is the biggest secret in shooting today. We don't have visibility to the general public as we did when long range handgunning was unheard of and thought to be impossible. I'm sure each MD out there will allow any new shooter to shoot a course of fire with any handgun or rifle as long as they are safe and don't prevent an actual IHMSA member from shooting a legal entry. Our attendance has dwindled so much over the years we now only shoot one day matches and are lucky to get 50 entries. I did see an article in one magazine recently about single shot pistols and long range accuracy. Lip service was given about IHMSA but that was about it. We just need to get new people to the ranges and let them shoot what they want to shoot and try to encourage them to join IHMSA and shoot formal entries. Side matches at least bring the shooters to the ranges but it sounds like few of them transition to regular IHMSA members. Somehow we need to get new shooters to attend our matches and join IHMSA. At least side matches get some shooters to attend our matches.

[jrywho]

I just wanted to say these comments are all constructive and I do not take anything said personal. I am extremely busy today and want to follow up with our format and course of fire at Jackson. I respect our membership and have met and shot side by side with most everyone commenting on this post. We have one common goal...growth. Try not to let terms sway your thinking. I'm trying to get people to the range for the IHMSA game exposure. With the right guidance and approach most are open once attending. I see most as being timid and need assurance that no one will belittle them for not hitting targets. Most have confidence shooting the 22 rifles. They have to start somewhere and this provides an open door for Jr's as well. We have enjoyed these Jr's at Jackson by this same approach. Handguns are the root of our sport and I have no intention to remove them.
Thanks

Jerry

[IHMSA80x80]

Tactical anything does not belong in IHMSA. It is not what we started with, nor is it the answer to increased participation in our sport. Three-position rifle does not need to be added either. They already have their game. If that is the case, why don't we go to a three-position match and demand they start shooting silhouettes? I bet THAT goes over real well.

There is no need to address any equipment costs for new shooters. It's been tried before and did not result in any new members. The Practical Hunter categories are the latest in that attempt, and we have seen virtually ZERO growth as a result of that. The few who have actually shot it, are current IHMSA members that just want to shoot a different gun for a change.

We just had our local silhouette match today in Kentucky. If it weren't for the Ohio shooters that came here, there would have only been the same 3 of us that are always here. Our club has offered, even promoted, .22 rifle silhouette matches alongside of us...standing, with or without a scope, at the normal handgun smallbore distances, plus you can shoot either the rimfire or Field Pistol targets. We've also added a Lever-Action match for the Big Bore side. ZERO people shot them today, or any other day this year.

The younger generations all want to play run-and-gun games, and try to see if they can empty a brick of .22's in a couple seconds at humongous targets placed mere feet away. They have no interest in precision shooting with a handgun, and I'm not talking way out to 25 yards with a Glock. That is fine with me if they want to do that. I won't be joining them. I'll stick with us "old guys" and enjoy the challenge of steel targets just the way it has always been.

[KickBass]

And why shouldn't it be? What is wrong with allowing rifles that fit the parameters of safety and lack of target damage? Aren't we all about just finding ways to get people out shooting?