ihmsa forums

I appreciate the explanation of what happened to the Ft. Stockton Internationals - I have often wondered the exact "what & why" of what happened there. I attended 4 Internationals in Ft. Stockton, and always shot well there. Yes, it was hot and windy ! I attended one International in Tusco (2004) and shot well there also. My work and life situation has changed since then and it was my last Internationals. I hope to attend at least one more in OKC, but that remains to be seen. I must also agree with what some others have said - this is information that should have been shared with the membership a long time ago ! The membership would appreciate a bit more information and candor in the future !

Exactly my thoughts also! How high could the cost of the Ft. Stockton high schoolers target setting fees be if we could build auto-reset targets at Tusco, and then walk away and LEAVE them there? Yeah, seems like a whole BUNCH of stuff that the leaders of IHMSA haven't told us, the lowly rank & file members about!

LOCKHART wrote:Exactly my thoughts also! How high could the cost of the Ft. Stockton high schoolers target setting fees be if we could build auto-reset targets at Tusco, and then walk away and LEAVE them there? Yeah, seems like a whole BUNCH of stuff that the leaders of IHMSA haven't told us, the lowly rank & file members about!

You do know that most of the auto reset targets at Tusco,came from the Oakridge range in Tennessee,after it closed?
Jim Fields,John Blue & I pick up the extra auto reset targets at Tusco and that’s what OKCGC is using.
Steve Martens has made multiple to trips to Tx and hauled back all the targets from Ft Sctockton.
They are at OKCGC also. Which only the rimfire are autorest,BB are free standing.
It’s was told to me,that Ft Stockton couldn’t get enough help to run another Internationals,and it wasn’t IHMSA.
If you’ve ever put on one,you know exactly how hard it is,the ones that work open to close for the entire match,are lucky,to shoot one gun!
The 10% rule! We have over 2000 members,and we struggle to get enough help!
Jim has already started line up help,for the 2019 Internationals.

No, how WOULD I know these things since it seems the big dogs of IHMSA never let us know? Lot of info coming out in this thread that I've NEVER heard before!

And no matted where they came FROM, they are still at Tusco, right?

Never mind, just reread the last part of your post, Jackie. My apologies.

Okay I have had to drag myself away from basketball long enough to become an IHMSA historian for awhile. The reason there were/are International ranges in Ft. Stockton, Oakridge, Tusco and OKC is because there were/are very large groups of very hard working dedicated IHMSA shooters with very strong clubs. Because of the politics involved, the club in Ft. Stockton no longer exists but it didn't matter because IHMSA had a dream situation with the city fathers. Those Ft. Stockton city fathers were willing to bend over backwards because they believed IHMSA was bringing thousands of people to Ft. Stockton. This was before the days of the oil booms and in the days of some very bad economy. The Ft. Stockton chamber of commerce and city leaders (city council, multiple mayors, along with the city manager) was willing to do almost anything to entice a large contingent to the city to help the local economy. Non-shooters are unable to make the distinction between entries and shooters. IHMSA for years let the local government believe that 1000 entries equaled a 1000 shooters. I know this for a fact because I was present at more than one meeting with those officials. Everybody was happy. The range is county owned and is used by all the law enforcement and maintained by the city and county with the help of the local prison population. We were given free storage for our targets and building use while we were there. The last couple Internationals at Ft. Stockton didnt draw 100 shooters. The city fathers realized this the last few internationals and weren't so quick to give us the key to the city. When we didnt return every two years as anticipated, they have finally told us to remove our equipment. Most of which went to OKC and is being sold and/or offered for sale.

At Oak Ridge a different tale was played out. We had a very strong local club with very hard workers and access to a range that had tons of land. The work was done by the locals and region 2 and Oak Ridge was built. IHMSA signed a contract to maintain the area that we shot on. The last two Internationals at OakRidge were in 1995 and 1998 and saw the invention of the automatic reset targets which were invented built and even financed by then V.P. Gary Wrigley. IHMSA held the Internationals at Oak Ridge every three years because Ft. Stockton was easier. IHMSA still expected the local club to do all the work and maintain the range and the local club finally died out and quit. 1998 was the last time they would work on the range. IHMSA let it set fallow until the Oak ridge range told them they were in violation of the contract for non-compliance. Oak Ridge told IHMSA to remove their equipment or forfeit it. Region two members went down and disassembled the auto resets and put them in a pile and waited for word from the board on what to do. And the targets set in the weeds for another year.
At the Internationals in the year 2000 Mark Urbank presented a proposal to the board to build an Eastern range at Tusco. In the meantime the deadline for removing the equipment from Oak Ridge was fast approaching. The board finally contacted Mark and gave him the go ahead but he had to go to Tennessee and remove the targets immediately or we were going to lose them. Mark, his brother Bill and I went down to Oakridge the weekend before the deadline and made crates out of the shooting pads and loaded up all the targets and resets and boxed them up for shipping. The three of us along with Bills adolescent son worked 18 hours the first day and 16 the second day. On the third day we loaded the crates on to a flatbed semi (this was actually the deadline day but Oak Ridge was kind enough to let us leave the range with the targets and resets). This was how close IHMSA came to losing all those targets and all that equipment.
The flatbed was shipped to Tusco where we spent the next year building the International range.

IHMSA signed a 10 year contract with Tusco range and Tusco silhouette group to maintain the equipment and hold International competitions. Amortization of the range was based on this 10 year period. International competitions were held at Tusco in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, and 2010. The contract specified that an International could have been held at Tusco every year if the board so desired. It was the boards decision to utilize the range only every other year. Tusco silhouette maintained the equipment and did 95% of the work necessary to put on the matches. At the end of the 10 year period discussions were held between Tusco silhouette and IHMSA board but no agreement was reached. The last money IHMSA paid to maintain the range occurred in 2010. Since that time Tusco has maintained the targets and the resets and the range. That was eight years ago and the silhouette group is still active and keeps the targets up because we are still shooting and enjoy shooting silhouettes.

At this point in 2010 IHMSA looked elswhere to hold the Internationals and in 2011 the Internationals were back to Ft. Stockton then Jim Fields stepped forward.

A contingent from the Oklahoma club came to Tusco and took half the targets to use for the set up that is currently at Oklahoma.

Now to answer the question as to why there are not International competitions at Tusco: Basically its because we already did it and we did it 5 times. We spent our time in the box. Anyone who wants to have an International Competition is more than welcome to make a proposal to the board and they will jump at your offer. Jim Fields would welcome it as well. IHMSA has targets scattered all over the United states and will be more than glad to put some of them to good use. The way that IHMSA holds Internatiional competitions requires a very strong local club. And they must have a burning desire to put on such an extravaganza as an International match. I simply do not have that desire to do it.

And also the question of why do we have the targets and the resets:
1.We are maintaining them. They are better off being used than laying in the weeds at OKC. When Bill and Mark and I went to Oak Ridge we literally had to dig them out of the weeds and dirt. They were sinking into the dirt and we never did find one pig. I'm sure its halfway to China by now. And they had only lain in the weeds for less than a year.

2.We are using them. We hold two day matches the first weekend of the month from April thru Nov. In addition we held two East Coast Championships, the last of which was just this last year in 2018. I havent done the math, but Tusco ran over 1,000 entries last year and the ECC was a 60 round match. Anyone in the world can come to Tusco and shoot with us and we'll send a dollar to IHMSA. We will continue to shoot silhouettes as long as we're alive and able. If you follow the match reports, there are only two clubs in the United states that shoot more entries than that. OKC runs a lot of entries and holds the Internationals and a big regional in the fall. LASC runs a lot of entries and holds the Extravaganza in the fall. Why wouldnt you want to keep targets where they are bringing such a benefit to the organization?

3.If it wasnt for us those targets wouldn't even belong to IHMSA anymore so we have a vested interest and more than a little claim to use them.

4.Who wants them?

The majority of what I have stated here I have personal knowledge of. I was either privy to the discussions, sat in on the meetings, was on the board of directors or made the decisions myself.

We have some good, dedicated people on the board. They do not receive a salary and rarely receive thanks. They make decisions that they feel are in the best interest of the sport. You will not agree with all those decisions. I do not agree with all those decisions. When you get tired enough of not agreeing, I suggest you run for office. There are always positions that are open. Then you would have a voice and could have hand in some of those decisions.

Like Joe says; Shoot more steel!

Standing is the reason I still shoot silhouettes.

Now its back to basketball for me.

Jim Kesser

BTW

Jackie means the targets at Tusco not Tucson! I hate auto-correct

Well said Jim. I agree with you 100%. see you in Oklahoma! Allen

Ten years of being a match director at CTSA in Texas was enough for me. I have no desire to relive any of that, so I will not be running for ANY IHMSA office. Being match director was a thankless enough job, I don't need my old 73 year old butt kicked around on a state or national level. We are down to just two IHMSA ranges in Texas now. I will continue to shoot silhouette until I'm either physical oy unable to or until my local range stops having matches. Thanks for the history lesson tho. I had never heard ANY of that in the 39 years I've been a member.