Sorting Cast bullets by weight

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jmoore
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Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by jmoore »

So how much variation do y'all find acceptable? Seems like much more than 0.5 grain means things open up past fifty yards. But it also means that I would reject about 75%+ of my own or store bought 240gr bullets. Usually about 2gr variance in a good run of 500 with only a few outside that range.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by 260 Striker »

I read and article years ago about a person that was shooting cast bullet bench rest and he stated he did not see any noticeable different in groups until his bullets weighed more than plus/minus 5% in difference weight. That would be 24 total grains for a suggested 240 grain 44 bullet. Sounds like a large variance to me but he had proven it in bench rest matches. I suspect it had a lot to do with the caliber, bullet style, weight and alloy that he was using at the time and may not hold true across all cast bullets. I tried sorting my 44s years ago and shot matches with same weight bullets then other matches with bullet weights all over the place and shot the same scores. I attribute that to me being a AAA shooter who probably couldn't shoot better scores with perfect bullets anyway. I gave up sorting by weight and just inspect for obvious flaws and just load and shoot. Silhouette shooting is mostly in the head. If you do something that you think will make you shoot better, it probably will even though in the real world it doesn't make a difference. I continued to shoot the same cast scores regardless of my weighing so I dropped that. I used to orient cases in the press/dies and then in the gun when shooting and that didn't make any difference. Do what ever makes you feel better when you are selecting your cast bullets then later throw a bunch at random through your gun and check the results. That should give you an idea of what works best for you.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by high standard 40 »

I won't suggest weight sorting but I freely admit that I do. I aim for plus or minus .005% of average bullet weight. On my 7MM 155 grain bullets that amounts to about plus or minus 7 tenths of a grain, or otherwise stated as keeping everything weighing between 154.3 --155.7 grains. I can't state that based on proven performance it makes a statistical difference because I have always weight sorted..........at least once I got serious with my cast bullet shooting. When I reached the decision to take cast bullets to the extreme I decided to remove every possible variable that I could think of before working with load development. I sort my brass by lots and match prep them: primer pockets, flash holes, and trim length. I weight sort my bullets.

So did any of this help group sizes? I can't really say because I've always done it and will continue to do so. Then if something goes wrong, I can't blame it on missing a step. Kinda a "peace of mind" thing.

To each his own.
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marshall623
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by marshall623 »

I do sort by weight on the 7mm stuff , does it make any difference I can't honestly tell you . I think it does tell consistency in your alloy and casting technique . If I sort by weight I looking at +/- 1/2 gr. to 3/4 gr. . I sort on a balance beam scale& I glace at it a little above or below 0 . My Lyman and NOE molds get fewer rejects than the Lee's from the start . I've noticed even fewer when I used alloy that was blended in larger batches. I think this is more consistent than 10# at a time. This is just me but I noticed even fewer when I started ladle pouring instead of my 10 # drip o matic. Going forward as the kids get older and time gets less available, I'll use weighing as a spot check on myself.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by i26963 »

When I shot BPCR, we would shoot for 0.5 grain variation, and that is with a 400 or 500 grain bullet. Yes, it can be done. Was it necessary, I don't know. But all the top shooters did it, so when I started, I strived to do it too.
if you want an eye opener, weigh some jacketed bullets. I believe you will be surpised at the variance in weight.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by JSH »

I tried about everything you could think of with cast. Then I remembered, this is supposed to be fun! I go at my casting sessions different than most. Until the mold is up to temp they are all culls, period. The only preheat I do is on the hot plate and once in a great while if a mold is acting up for some reason I will warm it a bit with a propane torch a little
All I do now is cull them by eye. If it doesn't look exactly like the inside of the mold, that plain and simple.
The next cull is at the lube sizer. If it feels different than the rest when sizing it is a cull, I do use these for bore fouling and sighters.
IMO fit/size is king.
I was burning so much time culling that it was getting into my shooting and loading time.
The above worked for me in my 30-30 TC barrel. I was shooting monthly 40's +8-10 and groups were excellent. So I went to half size. Two tries at that and success. It got boring so I moved onto the next project 7US in the BF with cast. Making head way but it is a bit tougher than the 30.
One thing I look at on culls before I forget is any sign of an air bubble in the base. I put a bit more tin in than I used to and that seemed to fix it for the most part.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by high standard 40 »

I will add one more thing to my comments. Weight sorting will help make you a better bullet caster if you let it. I was seeing wider weight differences at the beginning. So I started trying different techniques at the casting pot. I kept at it till I worked out some issues and my quality got better and better. My cull rate is much lower than it used to be. Weight sorting helped me identify those issues. You can't fix something if you don't realize that there is a problem. And as has been said, you should be having fun. Personally, I strive to produce the absolute best cast bullet that my abilities allow. That's where my fun is. Shooting them is then the icing on the cake.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by jmoore »

Thanks for the responses! I've been trying to get to a happy place with cast bullets out of revolvers for over fifteen years. So far only my .45 Colt does half way decently. The .357/.38 has been completely hopeless. The .44s are getting better, but store bought swaged bullets have been better so far, both in "real world" and off the bench. Sadly, jacketed bullets have proven far superior, but I have only used them in a .357 to shoot any matches to date. A couple of thousand factory rounds later and that revolver's throat is badly worn and it won't group half as well as it did new. Have burned out a couple of other .357 barrels with jacketed loads shooting IDPA, Steel Challenge, etc. One 686 is so worn you about can't see the rifling at the rear end anymore! OK for "run and gun" but it's not too precise at distance.

One thing that I've found surprising is how big a void you can have in a cast bullet and it will still be within a grain or so of the best bullets. If I could get photobucket to work there'd be photos. So watching for base dimples or pinholes has become another inspection item.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by JSH »

The one thing that I am going to try next as far as gadgets is a PID. Some mold alloy combinations seem to benefit a good deal from specific temps. I keep notes on molds just as I do for load work. The PID would be more precise and easy to repeat.
Glad you had good luck with store bought cast. The ones I tried almost kept me from trying cast. I am happy to say I have bought less than 500 cast in the past few years, and those were just to try a design. I didn't shoot a single jacketed bullet last season for any matches.
As I mentioned, fit is king. A set of pin gauges is worth it to find correct size with added benefit of checking for any kind of thread choke. Slugging still has a place as well.
I had a 30-40 Krag I shot some military matches with. Rifling was just a shadow but the bore was smooth as glass and it shot excellent. Buddy liked it and talked me out of it.
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Re: Sorting Cast bullets by weight

Post by jmoore »

Yah, the oversized throats on the older .44s were quite vexing for the longest time. So-so accuracy, leading, and inconsistent velocities. My 29-3 runs best with cases that aren't sized at all, as the bullets have to be so large that I can use the fired cases "as is" except for recrimping. It's like a whole different round from the newer properly dimensioned revolvers. At this point, good scores with it have way more due to the operator than the loads (swaged lead). Front sight focus is quite the challenge some days!

Have a PID temperature controller next to my ancient Lyman, but have yet to make the final connections. Would be done but decided to make the wiring at the pot somewhat less "Bubba-ized"! Mostly need to fab up a "line in" cover plate. Have been using it for years "as purchased" with the wiring spliced and covered with electrical tape, going into the pot with no protection.

Will do photos if P'bucket ever gets back online!
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