Best brass for 7TCU?

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260 Striker
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Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by 260 Striker »

Recently got the 7TCU XP back that I had built back in 1982. Got four makes of 223 brass, FC, RP, once fired PMC and once fired Wolf Gold and cleaned in wet tumblr with steel pins. All brass looked like new. Set my FL die to form cases with just a slight amount of resistance when closing the bolt. Used my old load of 24.5 grains of H322 behind Hornady 139SP bullets and shot some practice rounds and two match entries. The Wolf and PMC cases both formed great but about 30% of the cases showed incipient case separate about 9/16" from case rim. FC and RP cases formed great with no issues. I think I will try some WW cases next. Many years ago I used FC, RP, WW and even milsurp with no problems. Don't have a clue why the Wolf and PMC are only brands to have issues. Have any of you TCU shooters experienced any brass issues with any certain brands of brass? As mentioned above, all four brands formed so rounds chambered with some resistance so I know there should not have been any set back on any of the cases when fired.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by high standard 40 »

I have no experience with Wolf or PMC. Is this once fired brass? If so, it could be that these two had headspace issues in the original 223 chamber and the case separation got it's start then. I use mostly once fired FC crimped primer range pickups in my XP100 7TCU UAS gun. I have fired several 40X40s, a 60X60, and won shootoffs using this brass. Some 100 case lots that I'm currently using have been fired many times with no issues. I have had many problems with Winchester brass splitting in the shoulder and neck area.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by hardtoseeovergut »

Lynn,
RUN AWAY from Winchester brass! You know I shoot 6.5 and 7TCU every match. Here is pic of first loading of Winchester brass from ECC last summer...

Image

Then, 6 days ago with a new batch of Winchester brass, while shooting right beside you, this happened...

Image

The 6.5 seems to be harder on brass than the 7TCU and as you know these were 7TCU from my XP.

Hornady brass has held up pretty well. I bought a coulpe hundred Norma Tac-223 at Cabelas on sale for half the price of new norma brass, pulled the bullets and powder and they look really good. If you want to take your chances on winchester brass i have most of a new bag I'll give you. Never again Winchester for me.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by 260 Striker »

HS40, Got PMC brass from my MD who had bought a case of it for his AR so I know that was once fired. Wolf was range pickup but I found all the original boxes in trash can and primers all looked like factory so I may be guessing about rounds fired for Wolf. Too bad since it looks like great brass and has annealed necks.
Brian, don't toss the WW brass. I would like to try it in my XP to see if I get the same results. Sure looks strange seeing brass split in the middle of the body like that.
I really liked FC brass years ago but with hard to find components these days I may have to buy FC 223 ammo and shoot it up just to get brass. I did see some FC LC bulk brass offered but don't know if that is the same as regular commercial FC brass. If it is milspec I suspect it would be heavier than commercial which might not be a bad thing.
Never had brass issues with this XP when it was first built in 1982 and when shooting 7TCU Contenders.
Must be something different about current PMC and Wolf brass.
Thanks for the input!!!
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by JACKIE40X40 »

260 Striker wrote:HS40, Got PMC brass from my MD who had bought a case of it for his AR so I know that was once fired. Wolf was range pickup but I found all the original boxes in trash can and primers all looked like factory so I may be guessing about rounds fired for Wolf. Too bad since it looks like great brass and has annealed necks.
Brian, don't toss the WW brass. I would like to try it in my XP to see if I get the same results. Sure looks strange seeing brass split in the middle of the body like that.
I really liked FC brass years ago but with hard to find components these days I may have to buy FC 223 ammo and shoot it up just to get brass. I did see some FC LC bulk brass offered but don't know if that is the same as regular commercial FC brass. If it is milspec I suspect it would be heavier than commercial which might not be a bad thing.
Never had brass issues with this XP when it was first built in 1982 and when shooting 7TCU Contenders.
Must be something different about current PMC and Wolf brass.
Thanks for the input!!!
260 Striker,Is it possible since the PMC was fired from a AR platform,that the case is blown out oversize and the resistance is because Standard resizing die won't bring the case into spec sometimes.On some AR chambers they require Small base dies to correct the sizing? I'm with H S 40 headspace problem.I've had 2 Xp's chambered in 7TCU,that I had to reduce the powder charge,and had to seat the bullet in the lands to hold the case back to fireform properly. Just a thought.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by 260 Striker »

I tried to form the PMC 7TCU cases after wet tumbling just using the TCU FL die. Made sure the die was set so the new shoulder was holding the case against the bolt face. Many of the cases would not chamber due to the excess diameter at the base as you thought. Then took some other PMC cases, resized in .223 dies then formed TCU brass. This helped reduce the diameter near the bases and chambering was easier but I still had the TCU shoulder set to hold the cases tight against the bolt. I suspect my chamber and dies may just be a few thousands bigger in diameter than .223 specs and possibly the PMC brass will just not form to TCU all the time. Cases all formed OK but I sure don't want lose that many cases while shooting. I will just give up on PMC and Wolf brass.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by hardtoseeovergut »

I have an rcbs 22-6.5 step die. I can neckthem up to 6.5 if you like. IIt'llmake it a breeze to take up to 7mm.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by high standard 40 »

In regards to the Winchester brass.......the issues I have had with them is an improper annealing from the factory. I have seen several instances of Winchester brass that was split without ever being loaded or fired. Brand new cases in the original package with splits. I've also had instances of brand new Winchester brass split on the first firing with properly headspaced cases and moderate loads. It's important to add that I have also had very good experiences with Winchester 357 Mag and 44 Mag brass. It was my preferred case. Just my personal experience.
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by Richard Pickering »

Here is a good opportunity for some Cartridge Proctology. In determining what causes case separations you should consider using a cutoff tool and sectioning some of each type cases. There is a lot to learn about the case web area. Cataloging the results or pictures of the result could add to your database of knowledge. Knowing the origin of the cases is helpful, too. We might all accidentally learn something. RP
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Re: Best brass for 7TCU?

Post by 260 Striker »

I should have mentioned before that I have a piece of wire that I sharpened on one end then bent into a small "L" near the point. I can then slide this down inside cases to check for start of case separation. I did check the PMC brass as fired as .223 and there were no incipient separations so that did rule out the chambers being too big in what ever .223 there were fired in. I always had great luck in earlier years using Federal brass so I found a seller yesterday that sells once fired FC from an indoor range. Will try that and see what happens. The FC brass I used at my last match was brass I had from years ago so I wanted to try some fresher FC brass this time. I also found lots of complaints on the Internet about new FC brass when reloaded for ARs. Some complained the brass was too soft and primer pockets opened up on second firing or even loose pockets on the once fired brass. I wonder if FC has changed over the years since FC was one of the favored brands for all cartridges back in the "good old days". Also found a NOS Pacific Durachrome 7TCU FL die and will try that to see if there is a formed case difference over the RCBS FL die I have been using. My first 7TCU dies were the older Pacific Durachrame dies and they always worked great. Even if it doesn't form brass any better I can just adjust the lock ring to set the die higher and use it as a neck die. So far I know I am good to go with RP and older FC brass so will continue to check out other brands for my XP. I think I will also go back and form some TCU out of the once fired PMC and Wolf and try in my 10" TC barrel to see if forming in another firearm will make any difference. I haven't shot my 10" TC for years so that will give me a good excuse to try Production again. I know I will have to adjust the dies differently for the TC since they usually have more generous chambers.

As a side note I have been shooting the same brass in my 260 Savage Striker for years and probably have at least 10+ firings on that brass so I have a fair idea how to stretch out the life of brass. I may retire that brass just to ease my conscience but so far all the cases are holding up with no problems. I have reformed .243, 7-08 and .308 to 260 with no problems in the Striker. I have my FL die set to allow a snug fit for first formed 260 brass then when I reload I insert a .020 spacer under the FL lockring so I am getting the maximum amount of resizing without touching the shoulder. Has worked great for my Striker and makes brass last for many firings. That is the same process I am trying for my 7TCU XP.
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