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Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:43 pm
by high standard 40
LOCKHART wrote:We had a guy at our range in New Braunfels, Texas and I think he still a member of our
club. He had like a 4 digit IHMSA number, but he never competed in any of our club matches
until right before State and then he would come out, shoot one or two entries, and thats the
last you would see of him until State match. He was in the lower classifications but would shoot
the class above his top score and would usually win. To me, this was pretty chickenchitt, but
thats what he would do. If he is reading this, he will know i'm talkin bout him. I'm sure that this
rule was meant for people like him, but it never stopped his sandbagging because he would just
lay out a year, and then come back.
We have a rule to take care of this. A Match Director can move him up in class based on known ability.

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:05 pm
by LOCKHART
Yeah, you could do that, but he sneaky! he will shoot the high score of the class above him, but he doesnt
shoot enuff to move him up, right then. And, he skips the next year, so you cant move him up, gotta shoot
the move-up score within one year. I guess the fact that he shoots in lower classes doesnt make him
stand out, but he damn sure cheatin the legit lower class shooters out of their rightful trophy. People
like him just really pizz me off!

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:26 pm
by ole95
Hope the guy didn't win to many new cars doing that :))
to me a better way to handle "sandbaggers" (remember I could be viewed as one) would be to modify
Section IV
A. General
5. Movement to the next higher class
6. jumping class

if the 12 months were changed to 13,14 or even 24 months. And yes this could have side affects also
and maybe remove next match from 5. And yes this could have side affects also

But like Charlie Said the MD should man up and enforce rule 9 :ymdevil:

Rules can be looked at two+ ways
1. something to penalize one person for what some else did :((
2. a new challenge to find the loop hole to get in :-?

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:03 pm
by LOCKHART
:D Well, I dont know what the answer is, and the ways its looking for IHMSA, it might
be a real moot point in the near future, but, I always gotta laugh when I see this charactor
show up bout 3 months before Texas championship match. He been doin this for as long as
I've been in this game, which is 34 years. I dont guess he is gonna stop, now.

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:48 pm
by 260 Striker
Similar subject but not quite the same is the rule to downgrade a shooter. When I had good eyes and by a tremendous amount of luck I shot two INT scores in Revolver and have never shot a score in that class since. That was over 10 years ago. I don't even think it is worth the effort to get downgraded since I am just there to shoot against myself anyway. I did win Revolver class once since then but I was the only shooter and I think I shot a AA score so that really doesn't count. I want our sport to be fair but at this point in my life I just shoot by Category anymore and don't care what class I am in. Of course many say I have no class anyway. I just watch to see where my scores fall and if I should happen to score higher than the next class above me, then I had a great day. Now back to the real subject of the string! I also have seen shooters come out for maybe one match a year and then shoot great scores in a championship match. Thank goodness those shooters have slowly drifted out of our sport.

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:04 pm
by braud357
LOCKHART wrote::D Well, I dont know what the answer is, and the ways its looking for IHMSA, it might
be a real moot point in the near future, but, I always gotta laugh when I see this charactor
show up bout 3 months before Texas championship match. He been doin this for as long as
I've been in this game, which is 34 years. I dont guess he is gonna stop, now.
If I were you (or have the match director do it) - I would show him this rule, and tell him that it has appeared that he is taking advantage of the break-out rules. Tell him that if it seems to happen again - he will be re-classified. And if you tick him off - no great loss (my opinion) - I cannot stand a cheat !

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:56 pm
by IHMSA80x80
braud357 wrote: And if you tick him off - no great loss (my opinion) - I cannot stand a cheat !
I can't either, and that is what caused me to quit IHMSA.

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:21 am
by LOCKHART
80x80, would you please elaborate on your statement? I have found a few cheaters
in this game over the years, but they usually self destruct on their own. I would like
to know the details of your experience.

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:03 pm
by IHMSA80x80
There was an incident at the 2010 Internationals of someone using an artificial rest. It was reported to Board members, who viewed pictures taken of it, nothing was done at the time. The person doing that was a decades-long IHMSA member and a Board member. The whole thing was whitewashed and shoved under the table. I sent emails to the board, asking for reasons why the shooter was not disqualified and no action taken. I told them that as a 25-year IHMSA member and a 17-year match director, that if nothing came about this situation, I would resign from IHMSA. I would no longer be part of an organization that not only allowed cheating to occur, but condoned it. None of my emails was even acknowledged.

I waited until the Internationals match results were published in the IHMSA News to see what had happened, and have not been a member since then. I still shoot handgun silhouettes, but as a non-member only. None of my money goes to the organization.

Re: Match entry requirement for Championship matches

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:03 pm
by borregos
IHMSA80x80 wrote:There was an incident at the 2010 Internationals of someone using an artificial rest. It was reported to Board members, who viewed pictures taken of it, nothing was done at the time. The person doing that was a decades-long IHMSA member and a Board member. The whole thing was whitewashed and shoved under the table. I sent emails to the board, asking for reasons why the shooter was not disqualified and no action taken. I told them that as a 25-year IHMSA member and a 17-year match director, that if nothing came about this situation, I would resign from IHMSA. I would no longer be part of an organization that not only allowed cheating to occur, but condoned it. None of my emails was even acknowledged.

I waited until the Internationals match results were published in the IHMSA News to see what had happened, and have not been a member since then. I still shoot handgun silhouettes, but as a non-member only. None of my money goes to the organization.
That is sad!
Could you elaborate on the "artificial rest" please.