Lack of interest?

[high standard 40]

Those of us who love the game of silhouette and have been involved for several years have seen the gradual decay of our sport. As older shooters leave the scene one by one because of age, change of interests, economics, etc, we need to find shooters to replace them. Many and varied opinions and possible solutions have been tossed about and at times, passions have risen and bubbled over. I don't have the answer but I can give my opinion based on what I have seen on a local and regional basis.

Society has changed sine the inception of IHMSA. Today's average shooter has little or no interest in playing our game. It's too slow paced and involves too much effort (read this as being TOO HARD TO MASTER). Virtually every popular and growing shooting sport today involves scenarios.....IE the various Combat and Cowboy games. A much larger part to play in all of this is today's youth who have little interest in shooting at all, except in video games. We live in what I like to call an "Instant Gratification Society".

So in my opinion, our dwindling numbers can't be fixed. We will never get back to the membership and participation levels of the early years. I am by no means a "self defeatist" but I can see the handwriting on the wall. There will probably be a scattering of silhouette matches for many more years to come but we will never see huge numbers of ranges or shooters ever again......for a multitude of reasons.
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And it makes me very sad.

[flopmeister]

"To me the biggest problem with the IHMSA is complainers, not doers. Everyone thinks they have a better way but no one steps up. "
Most folks don't willingly line up to march off of a cliff. I have some ideas and I am pretty sure I know how to create and run a successful match that competitors enjoy. Were I to apply, what I have learned in 8 months of "outlaw" matches, to IHMSA matches, well the first thing that would happen would be my immediate expulsion and stripping of my class and scores. People are not willing to shoot for nothing......at least not forever. I am not trying to disrepect the old school here fellas. I have the utmost respect for my friends in Region 2 and abroad who cling to the old ways, nothing wrong with that, but unless there is a radical reforming of some rules and policies IHMSA is as dead as a framing hammer. I do not see any evidence that IHMSA wants doers, from all I can see they want followers. I am not a complainer, I have a plan and if I knew it wouldn't get me kicked out on my head I would implement my ideas at the next match. Either everyone would leave or it would grow, either way gentlemen, at this point there is nothing to lose.

[RockinHRacin]

Has there ever been a survey of what the rank and file shooters want at the Internationals? Change of venues, dates, number of targets, prize structure, parties or anything else that could be thought of. Has the industry been asked what they would be willing to sponsor at the internationals? We may be surprised what the shooters and industry may or may not want. It seems to me that the internationals as a viable match for all shooters is slowly slipping away.

So Greg what to you suggest? If you think the industry has never been approached about be a sponsor you must be living under a rock. What do you suggest, square dances each night?LOL Do you really realize the actual cost of putting on this match? Most places don't have the room to start with, what would you suggest? To me the biggest problem with the IHMSA is complainers, not doers. Everyone thinks they have a better way but no one steps up.

Tonedaddy,

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think you owe Greg an apology. I also think you need to reread Greg's question. I don't think he deserved the answer he received. He, like you, is a doer. He's a volunteer and I thank you both for your time you give to make my favorite sport exactly that. I think you, like many of us, are frustrated over the lack of growth in IHMSA. I've also noticed there are two groups of people. Those that think the way we've done things forever is the way we should continue, and those that toss ideas out there in hopes of success. Unfortunately, I don't think that status quo is the answer, but most of the newest ideas involve money we don't have. I happen to like Greg's idea of a survey. Realistically, we'll see a 5-10% return rate, but at least you will have involved the members in the future of their sport. Perhaps a poll right here in this forum could be used unofficially. Announce it in IHMSA News. This is two-fold. It reminds everyone this forum is here and provides the board with some member interaction. Can the survey be skewed, yes but I doubt the numbers would be too far off.

Listen we can "poo-poo" everyone that thinks differently than we do, or we can be open to feasible options... Just my $0.02...


Chris Holland
IHMSA #55010

[braud357]

Has there ever been a survey of what the rank and file shooters want at the Internationals? Change of venues, dates, number of targets, prize structure, parties or anything else that could be thought of. Has the industry been asked what they would be willing to sponsor at the internationals? We may be surprised what the shooters and industry may or may not want. It seems to me that the internationals as a viable match for all shooters is slowly slipping away.

So Greg what to you suggest? If you think the industry has never been approached about be a sponsor you must be living under a rock. What do you suggest, square dances each night?LOL Do you really realize the actual cost of putting on this match? Most places don't have the room to start with, what would you suggest? To me the biggest problem with the IHMSA is complainers, not doers. Everyone thinks they have a better way but no one steps up.

Tonedaddy, I do not know you, but I find your response to Greg's posting to be a bit out of line. Greg has been a long-time match director, state director, and has attended numerous state, regional, and International matches. He is also one of the biggest advocates of IHMSA that I know of. He is definitely a "doer" ! I think that he has every right to offer comments and suggestions, and I am puzzled that you took obvious offense at what he wrote. As HS40 wrote - the "climate" has definitely changed, and IHMSA will NEVER regain the levels of participation that I recall in my early years in IHMSA. And as Flopmeister said, perhaps we need to think "outside the box", but I also am a realist. The one thing that we cannot afford is devisiveness ! ------ Philip Braud IHMSA#13794 (Former match director, LA state director, and Region 2 Director)

[high standard 40]

I have spoken face to face with Flopmeister about the ideas he is advocating. I'm not sure that the direction he is suggesting would be right for me. But I am just one person. He may be right on target for what the organization needs, as a whole, to grow. I remember when IHMSA fractured and the West Coast shooters felt they had a better idea about how things should be run. They seemed to do pretty well on their own. I for the most part am very comfortable with IHMSA the way it is structured right now. But I can't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who consider themselves gun enthusiasts are not interested in our sport the way it is right now. I think it was Einstein who said...........
" Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
So if we want things to change for the better, something has to change or we will continue to get the same results. I just don't know what that is. I am one of only two Match Directors in the state of Louisiana and have worked tirelessly for the past 21 years to keep the sport alive here and help it grow. I authored an article in the newsletter of the "Louisiana Shooters Association" complete with photos. I don't know how many members there are in the LSA but I got not a single response from it. Not one. We have a local internet forum here dedicated to the
shooting enthusiast. It is not unusual for there to be over 500 users logged in at any given time. I have strongly advocated IHMSA there for over 2 years and have recruited ONE shooter. Most of those guy smirk at what we do with comments like...."Oh you're one of those &%$#* chicken shooters, Ha Ha Ha"...or....." That's not a real man's pistol, that's a sawed off rifle". There's not a lot of civility in that circle.

Back to what the Flopmeister is suggesting....I don't think it will ever pass muster with the rank and file IHMSA members at any level. But there is nothing from preventing him from starting his own brand of shooting sport.....and I commend him for thinking outside the box.

As far as 35isit. I've met quite a few different IHMSA members through the years and I don't know anybody who is more dedicated to our sport than Greg. He is a huge part of the backbone of handgun silhouette.

And back to the issue of growing our sport...... Refer to my previous post. I don't think it can be fixed given the societal changes we are faced with. It's really hard for me to accept because to me, anybody even remotely interested in guns should love silhouette if they'd just give it a try. But I guess there are fewer and fewer people who think like me.

Again, it makes me sad.

[i26963]

I, too, think that Greg was just asking what could be done. I'm proud o call Greg a friend, and I know you will not find anyone who has worked harder, and given more support, to IHMSA than Greg and Kathy Rhineheimer.
Melvin Calliham

[35isit]

Has there ever been a survey of what the rank and file shooters want at the Internationals? Change of venues, dates, number of targets, prize structure, parties or anything else that could be thought of. Has the industry been asked what they would be willing to sponsor at the internationals? We may be surprised what the shooters and industry may or may not want. It seems to me that the internationals as a viable match for all shooters is slowly slipping away.

So Greg what to you suggest? If you think the industry has never been approached about be a sponsor you must be living under a rock. What do you suggest, square dances each night?LOL Do you really realize the actual cost of putting on this match? Most places don't have the room to start with, what would you suggest? To me the biggest problem with the IHMSA is complainers, not doers. Everyone thinks they have a better way but no one steps up.

I have been to every International east of the Mississippi since 1987. At Oak Ridge in 87 I had to park at least 300yards away from the range in the overflow parking. At the last Oak Ridge International you could park anywhere. At the first Tusco International I had to park between the bigbore and smallbore ranges. Last year we all could have almost parked behind the firing line if permitted. The number of vendors kept dwindling down till last year only Carrol Pilant from Sierra was the only one there. I was the only shooter from Ky. Not all the local shooters from Ohio attended. There has to be a reason for this. We will never know what the shooters want unless we ask. We can blame the economy and gas prices, but there has to be more underlying issues.

Steve has a great turnout with his WCC Championship. L.A. has a great turnout with their Extravaganza. Aarne Langley had a great thing going with his Shoot The Sun Match in Fl. Aarne's match was so succesful he had to stop having it. Why? It got so big his range and help couldn't handle the number of shooters. Either by accident or design these three matches are giving the shooters what they want.

In 1987 I was lucky enough to finish third in my class in Unlimited. Every 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place shooter in their class in Unlimited received a certificate for three boxes of Nosler bullets. Would someone in the industry be willing to do something similar again? Again, we will not know what the industry would like to do for us until we ask.

To my knowledge there are several ranges large enough to host the Internationals. Tusco, Ft Stockton, Los Angeles, Oregon, Wisconsin, Arizona, Oklahoma City and there may be some more. At the present rate it doesn't take a huge range to host the declining number of shooters we have attending. By hosting it every so often the locals do not get burnt out doing it every other year. Oak Ridge crippled Region II. It done more to bring down the number of shooters in our region than anything. We lost many valued shooters and friends.

Many have stepped up and been ignored. Their ideas or thoughts were dismissed out of hand. That's the reason there was not a quorum of delegates in 2006 or 2008 at the delegates meeting in Tusco. Last year you didn't have to be a delegate to attend the business meeting.

Lastly, I want to thank those that wrote the kind words about me. I have tried to promote this sport daily. I do not have the wherewithal to attend the Internationals every year. I do not have the time or energy to be a Regional Director. My wife and family has sacrificed vacations, time and finances to promote silhouette in the state of Ky for 26 years.

My rant is over

[Boomer]

Society has changed sine the inception of IHMSA. Today's average shooter has little or no interest in playing our game. It's too slow paced and involves too much effort (read this as being TOO HARD TO MASTER). Virtually every popular and growing shooting sport today involves scenarios.....IE the various Combat and Cowboy games. A much larger part to play in all of this is today's youth who have little interest in shooting at all, except in video games. We live in what I like to call an "Instant Gratification Society".

I think you pretty well nailed it with this comment.
25yrs ago when I got into competitive shooting I took a long look at IHMSA then because all the aspects of the sport interested me. IPSC also grabbed my eye & being a young man with a limited budget & being drawn by the "action" of it I went with IPSC. Now older & fatter I dont run unless something is chasing me (and it better be bigger & meaner than I am! ) the notion of slow accurate fire interests me.

I think another reason for IHMSA's huge growth & then gradual decline is they were one of the 1st shooting "games". As such we grabbed allot of shooters & then as more games became available the numbers started to split up amongst the various disciplines.
Lastly our society ET AL is to blame. We have allowed the liberal agenda into our schools & homes (via TV) so that today shooting & gun owners are vilified resulting in less new blood to the shooting sports.

I have exchanged a number of posts with Flopmeister & believe his idea has merit but I also dont see it getting accepted by rank & file IHMSA.

Lastly I would like to remind everyone that we are all passionate about IHMSA & as such tempers may flair but you are not only expected but required to remain civil on this forum. No one here has the market cornered on dedication to this sport.

[high standard 40]

Lastly I would like to remind everyone that we are all passionate about IHMSA & as such tempers may flair but you are not only expected but required to remain civil on this forum. No one here has the market cornered on dedication to this sport.

Very true Boomer, I agree. The truth is we are not even close to having the entire IHMSA membership active on this forum. I know most of the people who do post here often and I would have to say that we as a group here are some of the most dedicated in our organization so we all share that trait. As far a civility, it's one of the things that keep me a regular here. I have been on other forums where hostility and angry words proliferate. As a rule, not so here. Maybe it just part of us growing older and wiser and choosing our words a little better. But more so, I think IHMSA members are just some of the greatest folks I've ever been involved with.

[19 Turkeys]

There is no question that Greg has committed many hours and a fist full of dollars in promoting IHMSA in KY & I believe Craig's rant was unwarranted.

That said, I believe there is a direct correlation between the decline in membership and Elgin Gates' death and IHMSA's the fact that IHMSA was no longer able to sell handguns cheaply.

The first International in Idaho Falls (where only Big Bore Standing, Production, Revolver & Unlimited were shot) drew over 1,900 entries. This year will will barely break 500 with 24 or more disciplines.

That said, the future of the game probably rests with the existing local clubs. Those with specialty matches will continue to prosper for some unknown number of years. Others will peter out I fear.

I personally believe this is a watershed year for IHMSA. The Board has several major topics to discuss and vote on. Their actions will determine the fate of the organization.

Yours,

Steve W.