IHMSA Rules and such

[xp-100]

To all, need to read what I am about to say. I see history repeating itself. Years ago we used to shoot at a local match. We shot all day and even used head lights to use for shoot offs. Then I had knee surgery and when I came back from this they were shooting off hay bales. Then they started using 1 1/4 in. barrels on their XP' and strikers. Next they started bolting solid copper plates to the bottom on their big bore guns and field pistols making them very heavy and like a bench rest gun. Then I had knee replacement. When I came back it went down hill from there. They went to over 100 shooters to a mere 20 or so. Then they decided to cut the round count to 7 rounds of fire. This pretty much ended the match with just a couple shooting if any now. I have not heard from them in years so don't know if they still shoot. Does this sound familiar to you? Everyone wants to go against the set rules. Some want reflex sights on revolvers and make it a production firearm when there is not a revolver made with reflex sights. Some want a 40 round match which was done in the regional match a few weeks ago to satisfy some shooters. Some want a 40 or 60 round match for the nationals. You want to change rules for stocks and forearms now going against rules. So, when are the 1 1/4 in bull barrels coming on the XP's? How about hay bales and copper plates bolted to the bottom of your firearms? Better wake up, for the rules were put in place for a reason. So, what this is saying is if we don't get our way we will pick up our toys and go home. Is this what our organization has come to? Is this what everyone wants to shut it down?

[LOCKHART]

When I attended my first IHMSA match in October of 1980, I walked the line behind the competitors to see what type of guns
they were shooting. Thompson-Center Contenders dominated most of the shooting. Xp-100's were dominant in the Unlimited classes. Revolvers were Rugers & Smith & Wessons. I thought, "Hell, I can afford to shoot this game!" Fast forward to today, and if I walked the line, and saw what one needed to compete, I would get back in my car and go home! 2000.00 dollar revolvers, and high dollar production single shots, some costing 1800 to 2000 dollars! Elgin Gates was the glue that kept this sport together. As soon as he was dead, powers that be got the high dollar revolvers & production single shots approved, and this sport has went down hill ever since. Everyone wanted to buy an "edge" by buying and shooting the high dollar guns. Well, here we are now, with probably less than 300 members WORLD WIDE.

[JACKIE40X40]

The comment about Mr Elgin Gates,being the glue that kept IHMSA so popular is 100 % correct!
He ran IHMSA as a business & had the shooting manufacturers ear.He offered us products for our sport,that you couldn’t fine else where! He was responsible for many new guns & calibers.
After he passed,is when we started to decline.Many of those manufacturers changed their products or done away with them.
I agree with,”my first match” .I shot my first match in 79.I had never seen or heard of XP’s or Wichita’s!
I shot my first match with a DW 357 with cast bullets on my belly,& got 5.I had never seen such a crazy way to shoot,laying on your back “ Creedmore “ ,it took me several matches to get the hang of it.later I saw the dead frog,and rear grips with match triggers, I followed suit.Now I’m back to square one,on my belly.
There’s been many rules changes in the 40+ years of IHMSA. I’ve been to dozens of delegates meetings,and heard several new rules proposed that I agreed with,and some I did not.Scopes class,I was a 100% against!
I think most everyone will agree,that if it wasn’t for the scope classes,& the money that it brings in we would have gone under years ago.
Here a quote from MR Gates in the early years of of IHMSA…
Written by Mr. Elgin Gates-IHMSA President
Production & Unlimited Guns
Knowing that shooters like to tinker with their guns & improve on what somebody else has built – that is the free American way - & also knowing that the spirit of fair play & equal competition is another way of life. I offered the motion providing for two categories: “Stock production guns out of the box” for the great majority of shooters that would enjoy the sport, & “Unlimited” guns for those who like to tinker, & who would – I felt – develop long range hand-gunning to the ultimate degree.

[high standard 40]

We can all agree that our membership numbers have suffered steep declines, but I have to disagree that the cost of guns is the cause of that decline. If a prospective shooter is put off by a $2000 gun, then why is the Precision Rifle series popular? Or Three Gun? Have you priced a race gun to shoot the combat games? How about a Benchrest rifle? Just a scope for PRS or BR can cost $2000. We can all guess at the reason for the decline of IHMSA but I don't believe that the price of a gun is the issue. Toward finding the reason for IHMSA decline I posed a question on a VERY active internet forum based in south Louisiana that caters to all aspects of the shooting sports. I had randomly checked that forum and there were frequently over 1000 people active on that forum at any given minute. The question I asked was, "Why is Silhouette shooting not popular?" I got an almost universal response that our game is too boring. It's not fast paced enough. An intelligent observation of firearm usage that the majority of the American public has been exposed to for the past 20-30 years will find either rapid fire semi-autos or sniper rifles. Television, movies, and video games are filled with it. The natural inclination of new shooters is to gravitate to what they are familiar with. Society has changed and there is no possible way we can change it back. So where does that leave us?
In regards to the original post by Bruce: rules for our sport are important. I did not join IHMSA until early 1980. At that time there were only three categories: Production, Standing, and Unlimited. It was Big Bore only and the rule book was noticeably thinner. Since 1980 IHMSA has changed the rules many times and added many different categories and disciplines, from Air, to optics, to 500 meter games. All could be said to have helped keep our sport alive and offer new challenges for just about every whim. I don't believe that offering shooters a choice discourages participation. How could it? How can offering more opportunities discourage participation? I think the answer is that for the vast majority of today's shooting public, our game just does not interest them. For us avid steel busters this may be hard to accept, but it's hard to deny the obvious. And I simply won't accept that the price of a gun is the problem.
So back to the rules. Of course we need rules and they need to be adhered to so that the playing field can remain level. But as I mentioned earlier, the rules have changed many, many times through the years. There is no reason why we can't change rules again. I don't have the answer to exactly what those changes could or should be. But in my humble opinion we need to find a way to keep all our active members in the game. We can ill afford to lose any members because our prospects for growth, at least from my perspective, are limited.
It has not been my intention to step on any toes or to offend anyone. I extend my apologies if I failed in that attempt.

[wheelgun7360]

Well said Charlie!! I agree 100%.

[LOCKHART]

I stand by my original post. I've been in this game since 1980, so I'm no newbie. If one were to take a Freedom Arms revolver and let an AA class revolver shooter use it in a match, I think he would pick up a MINIMUM of 10% more targets over let's say, his Ruger Super Blackhawk. If that's not "buying" an edge, what is it? Let's face it, fellows, we've let the rule makers in this game price us out of a game that's not gonna be around in 5 years, I believe. The posters that are saying the high dollar guns make no difference, are probably OWNERS of those high dollar pieces. And let's be honest, guys, a firearm that you have to wait for at least a YEAR to get, is damn sure NOT a production item!

[high standard 40]

I stand by my original post. I've been in this game since 1980, so I'm no newbie. If one were to take a Freedom Arms revolver and let an AA class revolver shooter use it in a match, I think he would pick up a MINIMUM of 10% more targets over let's say, his Ruger Super Blackhawk. If that's not "buying" an edge, what is it? Let's face it, fellows, we've let the rule makers in this game price us out of a game that's not gonna be around in 5 years, I believe. The posters that are saying the high dollar guns make no difference, are probably OWNERS of those high dollar pieces. And let's be honest, guys, a firearm that you have to wait for at least a YEAR to get, is damn sure NOT a production item!

I don't own even one high dollar gun. I shoot a T/C Contender in Production and an unmodified XP100 in Unlimited.

[JACKIE40X40]

I agree 100%,with high standard 40….
I’ll be the first to admit Im not good with a wheelgun…I can say, I was a 22 AA revolver shooter,and I only placed once at the Internationals with my DW,and I changed to a FA for 4 seasons & my scores stayed the same.

[64XP-100]

I don't own even one high dollar gun. I shoot a T/C Contender in Production and an unmodified XP100 in Unlimited.

Both of your guns were last made in 1998. Imagine being a new shooter and trying to buy a new one of each at your local Cabela's.

Cost of the guns is not the problem; supply of adequate guns is the problem.

[high standard 40]

I don't own even one high dollar gun. I shoot a T/C Contender in Production and an unmodified XP100 in Unlimited.

Both of your guns were last made in 1998. Imagine being a new shooter and trying to buy a new one of each at your local Cabela's.

Cost of the guns is not the problem; supply of adequate guns is the problem.

I agree that a readily available supply of lower priced suitable guns is a problem, but what caused that exact problem? People stopped buying them and it became unprofitable for the manufacturers to continue producing them. It's all about supply and demand. Today, what kind of guns are leaving the shelves in huge numbers? The answer is semi-autos and black rifles, because that's what most shooters want in today's society. And if a new shooter wants to get into an organized sport, he is going to want to use his new toys. The sport we all love is just not interesting to the vast majority of shooters in today's world. That's why I suggest that we learn to embrace ways to keep all of our current members and not find reasons to anger them into turning their back on IHMSA.