The Future of IHMSA

The place to shoot the breeze on all things IHMSA
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Richard Pickering
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by Richard Pickering »

May I add to the postings of Lynn, Pete, John and others. IHMSA needs to have a fun event as an introduction. All of us enjoy the challenge Lynn mentioned. Not many younger shooters understand the challenge. A few years ago I helped a local club host a Glock match. The turnout was huge. The same club hosts Steel Challenge matches monthly. The Glock match was one that wasn't a normal monthly match.
The Glock match isn't very complicated. It doesn't require much distance and the magazine is usually empty after 15 seconds. You might have to wait an hour to shoot your 30 round entry. Scoring is easy and at times generous. You can shoot your ''carry'' or ''house'' gun. It is probably more expensive as an entry fee than ours. One gun serves for several entries.
Theirs doesn't require the study and preparation we put into our selections. But------they have fun.
Fun--- in my view, the Practical Hunter should attract folks who would like to shoot but don't want to invest in something that has limited use to them. Fine. Let them shoot whatever they bring out. Remove the awards from P H. You shoot only for your score. If they decide they want competition they can enter our other disciplines.
Give the new shooter all the help they need. Most of us do this anyway. Spot for them. They need to enjoy a fun event without feeling embarrassed.
Follow up with them and encourage them to come next month and improve the score. Being told ''that isn't legal for-------'' isn't going to endear them to return. It might not be legal but at least they are with us shooting and learning. rp
I have served as assistant match director, Southern Silhouette club, 1980s. Also, the Griffin Gun Club for Silhouette during the 1990s, to about 2005. For a short period I authored the ''Cast Bullet'' section of The IHMSA News. Joined IHMSA March 1979.
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high standard 40
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by high standard 40 »

Regarding the Practical Hunter rules, I've said for some time now that a shooter in this category should be allowed to use any type of handgun, without any restrictions, as long as it is safe and won't damage targets. Otherwise, PH is just another name for UAS. Let PH be a category for new shooters to utilize whatever gun they have. And this would be a good place for the reflex sight older shooters without messing with the Production category.

As far as what it will take to grow IHMSA, I don't have the answer. I'm not really sure that there is an answer. You can't make people like our game without changing what it is at it's core founding principal.......because today's young shooters seem to require more "stimulation". Like has been mentioned about the current trend in shooting sports, if you don't expend 300 rounds in an hour or less, it's just boring. And boring is exactly the word I have heard used in regards to silhouette from many, many of today's average shooting enthusiasts. Society has changed hugely since IHMSA was founded.....and I don't foresee it changing back anytime soon.
IHMSA Member since 1980
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Current Match Director Top Shot Silhouette
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borregos
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by borregos »

Richard Pickering wrote:Fun--- in my view, the Practical Hunter should attract folks who would like to shoot but don't want to invest in something that has limited use to them. Fine. Let them shoot whatever they bring out. Remove the awards from P H. You shoot only for your score. If they decide they want competition they can enter our other disciplines.
Give the new shooter all the help they need. Most of us do this anyway. Spot for them. They need to enjoy a fun event without feeling embarrassed.
Follow up with them and encourage them to come next month and improve the score. Being told ''that isn't legal for-------'' isn't going to endear them to return. It might not be legal but at least they are with us shooting and learning. rp
I agree Richard.

At our match I let shooters shoot whatever they have as long as they are safe and there is no target damage, basically we have the following categories:
1-Big Bore
2-Small Bore
3-Field Pistol
4-Practical Hunter
5-Lever Action Rifle Open Sights (BB, SB, FP)
6-Lever Action Rifle Scoped (BB, SB, FP)
7-Any other Handgun, Rifle, Carbine.

People have fun, but unfortunately there is no incentive for the new guys to join IHMSA, we are the only club left in Canada as far as I know, and not everybody wants to drive 6 hours into the USA to shoot.
Pete
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Nuclearmike
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by Nuclearmike »

I came to the board this evening wanting to discuss this issue. Lo and behold I found this thread. I've been thinking a lot about IHMSA and the lack of participation. First let me tell you a little about me. I'm a long time shooter, grew up around firearms, served in the United States Marine Corps and have participated in other shooting sports. I basically stumbled upon IHMSA because the range I belong to hosts a monthly match. I initially tried it because I thought it would make me better at action shooting. Trigger control, sight picture practice. I tried the local match with a 357 mag revolver and a 22lr revolver. I loved it. It brought back memories of being on the firing line at Camp Pendelton. I'm fortunate in that I live in Central Ohio and we have 3 monthly matches within driving distance. Two of which have BB. I have spent this summer shooting every match I can at the expense of all the tricked 1911s I have in my safe. I remember the first match I went to, the match director introduced himself and then told me I would probably be the youngest shooter there. I'm 53.

I get it that we aren't standing on the line with black rifles or the newest high capacity plastic wonder nine but, surely what we do can appeal to new shooters. Believe me when I tell you that other shooting sports ask this same question. How can we appeal to young shooters. Attracting young shooters is a tricky business. By young I mean teenagers. What I have seen is when young people get involved they lose interest or the wherewithal to shoot when they go to college or start a family, etc. Where other organizations have seen a huge increase is shooters in their 30s and 40s. Folks that have some disposable income. For me it has been easy to acquire pistols suitable to this game. I expressed an interest in getting a TC or two and magically the pistols appeared at the next match. So, I don't think equipment is a big obstacle. True, one can't go down to the local gun shop and buy a lot of the stuff we use but, if my experience is any indication, IHMSA shooters will make it happen for a new shooter.

I reckon what I am saying is I really enjoy this sport. I spend a whole heck of a lot more time shooting that standing around (this is the opposite of the action shooting I have done), it's easy to learn the rules of the game, its difficult to be good. Perhaps the lesson to be learned from my experience is I found IHMSA almost by accident. Maybe exposure is what's needed to attract new shooters.
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jbolt
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by jbolt »

I will start by saying I am not an IHMSA shooter...yet.

This same topic comes up on the NRA silhouette boards so we are not much different in that regard. I can't speak for the rest of the country but here on the west coast many venues have simply disappeared making accessibility to the sport harder to come by. The anti-gun movement has successfully removed shooting activities from schools so the only exposure I see to younger shooter is either through scouting (which is in decline) and parents.

I have been shooting NRA rifle silhouette since 2010. Small-bore, high power, lever gun and air rifle. I have been the match director for my clubs monthly small-bore rifle and small bore lever gun match since 2012. Our small bore rifle match averages about 16 competitors. I have about 40 on my roster and if they ever all showed up at the same time I could not accommodate them.

At the time I took over, our lever gun match averaged about 3-4 each month. We need a minimum of 4 to set up steel. We used to shoot the lever gun match after the small bore rifle match but, due to low attendance, in 2015 I convinced the club board to move lever gun to a week night (we have lights), purchase a set of targets for pistol cartridge lever gun and to add NRA Hunters pistol in hopes of attracting some of the SASS, Action shooting and Bullseye shooters as a way to increase participation. We were well received the first year with 8-10 per month. Participation has steadily declined since then and we are now back to where we were at 3-4 a month.

When I took over as match director, I actively encouraged parents with younger shooters to come out to our small bore matches. Those I did get to show up always had fun and enjoyed themselves but there is no anchor of friends to keep them coming back. My own children who are now in college have no current interest in the sport and that is mostly due to work and school commitments. They have said they sometimes feel out of place due to the age difference. In my own experience I had very little time post high school through my 30's with work and family.

I no longer actively seek out younger shooters. I think that is a dead end. I get better results focusing on those in their late 30's early 40's who have more time and income. I think this is where the focus should be. I didn't even know silhouette existed until I was 46 and I have been an active recreational shooter and hunter. Many of the venues I'm familiar with on the west coast are either at private clubs or where the matches at venues that are open to the public, they are held on separate ranges not normally open to the public so the only outside exposure is from those who participate.

Our club is unique in that our small bore match is held on a Saturday during public hours so people have an opportunity to come watch and talk to the competitors. Even with that exposure, I only get about a half dozen people a year out to give it a try and of those maybe one or two will come back on a semi regular basis. Those that become regulars are always in their mid 40's or older.

I have never been much of a pistol person but since adding Hunters pistol to our lever gun match I have picked up a Contender which I am starting to shoot. I am finding it a unique challenge and hoping to shoot other venues but as far as I can tell there are only two clubs in California shooting pistol silhouette with the closest being 4 hours away. We will be moving to southern Oregon in a few years and that area seems to have even less silhouette opportunities, pistol or rifle.

The governing body by itself cannot grow the sport. This has to come from a grass roots effort from the participating community as a whole to get the word out, organize and find new or existing venues to make the sport more accessible. Not an easy task as it takes a considerable commitment of time and money. Based on my experience as a match director, most just want to show up and shoot and not take on any additional responsibility.

I will add that my experience has been that silhouette shooters for the most part are some of the friendliest people on earth. I find it unfortunate that the sport of silhouette, pistol or rifle, has been in decline as it is a challenging and personally rewarding activity.

Jay C.
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by nutcase »

Actually Jbolt's post brought other problems we have in California when it comes to matches in this state.

when it comes to IHMSA in California, it is virtually impossible to buy a New silhouette handgun. I learned That trying to buy an Encore. I have heard every stupid reason why no gun shop will order one. So, I will wait till I Retire and buy one when I move out of the state. Private party transfers are about the only way we can get a silhouette gun right now! because of our Gun Laws, Most dealers on places like Gunbroker will not ship to California.

But, Jbolt's got my interest as I am trying to get back into Rifle silhouette but with NRA, I can not find any place to find out which clubs are shooting NRA rifle silhouette. At least with IHMSA, we always have our organization match schedule to get contact info on matches.

But, if all goes well, I may have 2 new clubs shooting in Northern California by next year!

California used to be the Largest state shooting IHMSA during the 80's and 90's with at least 2 matches being shot every weekend. Now we have 2 clubs state wide shooting Matches and these clubs are barely breaking even on their matches.

what makes it worse, I am 59 and probably one of the youngest shooters at the matches!
Daniel Hagerty
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IHMSA News Editor - 2015-2017
.22 records Coordinator - Present
CA State Director - 2015-2019
Match Director, Stockton Silhouette club 1990-1995
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JACKIE40X40
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by JACKIE40X40 »

nutcase wrote:Actually Jbolt's post brought other problems we have in California when it comes to matches in this state.

when it comes to IHMSA in California, it is virtually impossible to buy a New silhouette handgun. I learned That trying to buy an Encore. I have heard every stupid reason why no gun shop will order one. So, I will wait till I Retire and buy one when I move out of the state. Private party transfers are about the only way we can get a silhouette gun right now! because of our Gun Laws, Most dealers on places like Gunbroker will not ship to California.

But, Jbolt's got my interest as I am trying to get back into Rifle silhouette but with NRA, I can not find any place to find out which clubs are shooting NRA rifle silhouette. At least with IHMSA, we always have our organization match schedule to get contact info on matches.

But, if all goes well, I may have 2 new clubs shooting in Northern California by next year!

California used to be the Largest state shooting IHMSA during the 80's and 90's with at least 2 matches being shot every weekend. Now we have 2 clubs state wide shooting Matches and these clubs are barely breaking even on their matches.

what makes it worse, I am 59 and probably one of the youngest shooters at the matches!
Daniel:Your sure right about California.Like you stated about being one of the biggest in IHMSA matches.In 83 we planed our vacation in California,and while we were there,I called Jerry Barlett at Inland,and if if I could shoot the California State championships? He said sorry no! After a few seconds,Jo Barlett got on the phone.
She said if I could be there for the first relay at 8:00am she would let me shoot one gun.
As it turned out I got to shoot U and P. I’m not sure which was the biggest in the 80’sand 90’s,California or Texas?
In 86 while I was region 4 director,I called the Texas director about shooting the Texas championships and it absolutely no! He was expecting over 500 Texas shooters.
It’s sad to think that we have just a handful of IHMSA ranges now!
Oklahoma is doing fair on new shooters,we get one or two,a season,and a few of our old shooters are coming back! The key word “Old” I’m guessing 90% of our shooters are seniors.
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jbolt
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by jbolt »

nutcase wrote:Actually Jbolt's post brought other problems we have in California when it comes to matches in this state.

when it comes to IHMSA in California, it is virtually impossible to buy a New silhouette handgun. I learned That trying to buy an Encore. I have heard every stupid reason why no gun shop will order one. So, I will wait till I Retire and buy one when I move out of the state. Private party transfers are about the only way we can get a silhouette gun right now! because of our Gun Laws, Most dealers on places like Gunbroker will not ship to California.

But, Jbolt's got my interest as I am trying to get back into Rifle silhouette but with NRA, I can not find any place to find out which clubs are shooting NRA rifle silhouette. At least with IHMSA, we always have our organization match schedule to get contact info on matches.

But, if all goes well, I may have 2 new clubs shooting in Northern California by next year!

California used to be the Largest state shooting IHMSA during the 80's and 90's with at least 2 matches being shot every weekend. Now we have 2 clubs state wide shooting Matches and these clubs are barely breaking even on their matches.

what makes it worse, I am 59 and probably one of the youngest shooters at the matches!
You're more than welcome to shoot our silhouette matches if you are willing to make the trek to Cupertino.

Yes the NRA makes it nearly impossible to find out where matches are being held. The post a link to a pdf. every month in their online magazine "Shooting Sports USA" but from there it takes some digging to find. Search for "Coming Events". Unfortunately not all events can be found this way since some groups forgo the process of signing up for approved matches and just hold club matches. Our Hunters pistol match is no longer and approved match because no one was buying score books so why bother with the extra paper work.

The CRPA website will list the state matches.

I'm in the process of purchasing an Encore Pro Hunter pistol from a vendor in Utah. They have no issue with sending to our clubs FFL so it is still doable in CA with a little leg work. I'm still appalled at the amount of paper work involved in purchasing a firearm in CA.
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saleen322
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by saleen322 »

I too was thinking about the "old days" when shooting silhouette was popular and there were matches all over. Like many here, I got away from it for some years and when I got looking at the Dan Wessons and Contenders out of the gun safe thinking about trying a match again, I found there were none in PA for 100s of miles from me. In the mid-80s there was a match within an hours drive every weekend in central PA. I actually tried to contact some of the local places to see if I was missing anything. The one range said they do a couple of unofficial matches each year because they only had full size BB targets and standard 22 targets. They did not have all the targets used now with the many classes. The other range said they were kicking the idea around of trying something but there was little interest so the idea was dropped. I still needed to get a fix for my silhouette need sooooooooo... I took and cleared a 100 yard patch off the driveway, got my old homemade targets, and put in a mini-22 range. I do hope IHMSA makes a comeback but I can at least hear some steel ring when I feel the need. IHMSA #23748

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nutcase
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Re: The Future of IHMSA

Post by nutcase »

jbolt wrote:
You're more than welcome to shoot our silhouette matches if you are willing to make the trek to Cupertino.

Yes the NRA makes it nearly impossible to find out where matches are being held. The post a link to a pdf. every month in their online magazine "Shooting Sports USA" but from there it takes some digging to find. Search for "Coming Events". Unfortunately not all events can be found this way since some groups forgo the process of signing up for approved matches and just hold club matches. Our Hunters pistol match is no longer and approved match because no one was buying score books so why bother with the extra paper work.

The CRPA website will list the state matches.

I'm in the process of purchasing an Encore Pro Hunter pistol from a vendor in Utah. They have no issue with sending to our clubs FFL so it is still doable in CA with a little leg work. I'm still appalled at the amount of paper work involved in purchasing a firearm in CA.
Cupertino is not that far for me. Right now I am driving to Avenal (about 3 hours drive) just to do load testing! My main problem is that I work saturdays, so can only make a sunday match.

you are lucky in that your club has an FFL. all my friends that had an FFL either moved out of state or gave them up. so, I have to use the gun shops and they are the ones giving me the problems with buying one.
Daniel Hagerty
IHMSA # 42084L
IHMSA News Editor - 2015-2017
.22 records Coordinator - Present
CA State Director - 2015-2019
Match Director, Stockton Silhouette club 1990-1995
NRA Patriot Endowment Life Member
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