Financial Report & Membership Status

[AtomicDogg]

A couple more things that need to be made public.
What agreement does IHMSA have with OK regarding the WC? Is it in writing? If so, please make it known to the membership.
Specifically, in the event that OK decides to not hold the WC anymore, what becomes of the targets, mechanisms, etc.?
I know Jim Fields and his club put in a tremendous amount of work into hosting the WC, so please don’t think this is a slight to them. And they did a first rate job.
Thanks
Melvin

In addition, with all due respect, we should also know what is the arrangement between IHMSA and Tusco......If I'm not mistaken, they still have 2 or 3 Auto Set Target systems. Unfortunately, they have been unable to host any IHMSA Regional, ECC or World Championships in the last couple of years. Just a way to clearing the table with a new administration. Let's put all the cards on the table.

[i26963]

To clarify, I am not disparaging OK club in any way. For those of us that were around during the Permanent Range fiasco in Idaho, it just seems that we didn’t learn anything about spending money on ranges without specific written contracts.
I am also not disparaging Tusco. I think that the Tusco Gun Club, and not the Ihmsa club, was the reason for stopping WC’s there.
Maybe Jim Kesser could shed some light on it. I went back through old issues of the IHMSA News and found where IHMSA spent around $95,000 on range improvements . And they put on some great WC’s.
But see, that is my whole point in my questions. If these venues had a written contract, I never saw one. If there was one, they should have been published for all the members to see.
I’m off my soapbox.
Melvin

[aggshooter]

Regarding targets, Jim Kesser and Jim Fields are the best sources for that answer. Perhaps Jackie Brown will respond for OKCGC.

Doug came on board as VP less than a year ago. Soon after, Bruce resigned due to health reasons and Doug stepped up to become President. I came on board in May 2020 as VP. Neither of us were involved as board members prior to becoming officers. Some questions are historical in nature and predate our positions, neither of us were involved to the point of having personal knowledge of events from 10-20 years ago. Doug wasn't shooting IHMSA back then and I had a swing shift job that limited me to as few as 9 free weekends a year.

Important note: Neither Doug or I are responsible for the shortcomings of past leadership. It's not fair to blame us for a financial report that wasn't published prior to us taking office. The mechanic who is trying to fix your car isn't responsible for the breakdown.

Regarding expenses and why we felt a sanction fee increase was appropriate...IHMSA membership is a far cry from our heyday. We have lost about 1800 active annual members since 1995. That's $63,000 per year in membership fees. If each shooter fired only 20 entries over the course of the season, that's a loss of another $36,000. So our annual base income is now $100,000 less than 1995.

Due to less income, we let go our paid staff and essentially closed HQ. All the responsibilities that nobody wants is now delegated to largely 4 people...Doug, April, Dan Hagerty (computer & IT), and myself. Doug and April have full time jobs. I'm retired but active in a variety of shooting sports as participant, match director, coach (college rifle team, 6 hours a week Nov thru Feb), 4H, local gun club president, etc. I did not intend to add another 150 hours a year in a thankless position.

A sample of $$ items since July 1....we are running at a bit of a loss.

Received $3047 in sanction fees.
Spent: $79-Banking fees
$512- Office supplies
$959- Postage & shipping
$306- misc reimbursements
$270- refunds of canceled entries or IHMSA News
$1292- WC event expenses

When my bank login password repeatedly failed last week, I spent 3 hours on a 2 lane winding state road to make a 125 mile round trip to the bank to reset the password because it has to be done in person.

I have obligations this next 2 days and will be offline. Will try to answer questions, publish reports, etc, in a timely manner when I return.

[i26963]

OK, I give up. This is my last post on this.
Rich, I am not blaming you or Doug for anything. I appreciate all both of you do.
If their is a contractual agreement between OKC and IHMSA, why should I have to ask OKC for an explanation!?
Surely IHMSA would have a copy of the contract!
Anyway, good luck.
I’m on the fence about re-joining. Matters not to me whether my scores are published.
Regards
Melvin

[Shoot2Thrill]

Ignoring the members? If our contact on the forum, mailings, phone calls, current workload, and emails are not enough, then I don't know what else to do because we are maxed out. We aren't married to IHMSA and aren't compensated. "Powers that be", are you referring to God? I am a big dog as when I step on the scale it tips more than I would like it to.

I, Doug Edney, am President and Rich Hawkins is Vice President. We are not powers that be nor big dogs. Directors are Allen Olsen (Reg 1), Allen Gaskin (Reg 2), Brian Gildea (Reg 3), Jim Fields (Reg 4), John Richards (Reg 5), Dell Taylor (Reg 6 and Rules Chairman), Russell Mowles (Australia), Don Frasier (Brazil), and Luis Britez (Paraguay). Recently, my wife, April, has been performing membership and IHMSA News duties. We have made many copies and stuffed many envelopes to past and current members. The response has been fantastic with an overwhelming amount of gratitude and thanks for trying to get IHMSA on track and plug the hole. Also, Warren Alkire has committed to taking over as Secretary. This is dependent upon revising the bylaws to reflect the separation of the Secretary/Treasurer position into two separate positions. Does anyone know of someone who could potentially fill the roles of Treasurer, Region 7 Director, and Region 8 Director? Thank you to Lorene Thompson for helping us out with paypal and WC registration. Thank you, Dan Hagerty for keeping up on the technology and form changes.

We have contracted with Adams Brown from Kansas to help us resolve the financial mess over many years and reinstate our tax id number. In fact, I was on the phone with them yesterday, and we are finalizing documents to report to the IRS.

Since I have been President, we have refunded those who paid the $20 for IHMSA News. To my knowledge, the $20 option for IHMSA News has been removed from hard copy membership forms and paypal. We are looking forward to sending IHMSA News, membership cards, and a rule book in February. February is our plan, but it may end up being March. In preparation, Rich has been working on a 2020 financial report.

As it pertains to OKCGC, I will contact Jim Fields to check for an agreement. I am unaware of such a document for the WC. In hard copy and electronic documents that I have viewed, I have not seen an agreement. As it pertains to Tusco, I believe Jim Kesser answered that in detail a while ago on the forum. I will contact him to see if he has an agreement. Also, I have not seen an agreement. We are NOT hiding anything from you.

As volunteers, newly "elected", and want to to the best for this association, we strive to be transparent with the membership. Yes, it angers me that financial reports were not done for many years. I absolutely strive to meet the demands of the bylaws which includes semi-annual financial reports. We will keep trying our best and plugging away. Along the way, we will make mistakes and forget some things. For those who thanked us for our efforts, we are very appreciative. For all members, we will have a large issue of IHMSA News coming out that will cover many topics. It is our first attempt at an issue and will be a learning experience. For those who are not confident in us, I hope to earn your confidence and trust. We are officers because we want to help. Foremost, we are members who want answers as well.

[Jimologist]

I can answer one of the questions.

There is no contract or agreement between Tusco and IHMSA and there has not been a contract or agreement since 2010.
By the same token we have not received any compensation for maintaining the equipment.
We have averaged 700-900 entries per year since the contract expired. In addition we held 2 extremely successful East Coast Championships. So we have probably sent IHMSA approx 10,000 over the last 10 years. Please look up my post addressing this very topic .
It was in Range Ramblings and dated March 24, 2019.

Tusco produces more entries than any other range in the US except maybe OKC and LASC.

Jim

[volleyman]

I’m not aware of written contract with OKC Gun club. I believe when Jim offered to host the World Championship the extra targets not being used at Tucson, he went and picked them up himself and installed them. For many years no other club was willing to host the championships. And after the Cindy Affair we as an organization had no funds and Jim stepped up and offered us the use of OKC to host the championship. The profit we made off those matches allowed IHMSA to continue to exist. Without Jim Fields letting us use his excellent facilities at Virtually no cost to IHMSA this sport would have died. Those profits allowed us to pay back the members who kept IHMSA going with their own money. We all owe Jim a great big thanks for what he has done for this sport!!!
An older board had an contract with Tusco and yes that has expired. The later board with Nancy as president reviewed that contract and it was not in the interest of IHMSA to continue it. To host a World Championship there it would have cost IHMSA over $7000+ to rent the range, plus target setters and other expenses. At the time of the original contract IHMSA had lots of money and in my opinion and that of the later board we had spent way too much money for very little return. If fact the contract had IHMSA paying for maintenance on the targets that we payed to have shipped to and installed on the range, while the TUSCO range used our targets for their local matches and IHMSA received no rent for use of the targets.
I wish Doug and the board luck with retaining membership and recruiting new members. IHMSA now has funds that should be used wisely for that effort.

Steve Martens

[nutcase]

i am going to point some things out.

I am going to start as it was brought up. IHMSA still provides Match supplies (including Scorecards). you can use the attached form and I usually get it shipped out in 2-3 weeks. I only ask that you order more than you need. The greatest expense is the cost of shipping and I usually increase the requested amount of Cards to make it worth shipping costs.

match_package_order_form-2.pdf

(103.66 KiB) Downloaded 106 times

There is now a Universal scorecard around, BUT I have not seen it yet.

one pet peeve I have always had is the lack of Volunteers in IHMSA (actually all shooting competitions).

Right now, Probably the busiest people in IHMSA is Doug and April Edney. Along with full times Jobs, with doug running the Organization and April taking care of Memberships, They took on the editing of the newsletter. Since I was the editor for a time, I know how much of a Job this can be. I had to Resign because the editor job along with running part of HQ, I almost lost my Job and was seriously affecting my health from lack of sleep.
Rich Hawkins also, as the VP is also doing the job of treasurer. other than reviewing reports, I never had anything to do with the Financial portion.
And Last is the Match directors. I have to been about 12 clubs over the last 2 years and have been appalled at the lack of help these match directors get.

Right now, these positions need to be filled within the organization:
Region 7 Director
Region 8 Director
Numerous State directors
and after it is approved to 2 positions:
Secretary
Treasurer
and We do need an Editor but in my opinion, this is a job for 2-3 people.

[aggshooter]

Melvin, I meant no disrespect, and apologize if it sounded that way.

All-
The reality is that many things have happened 2-20 years ago and pre-dates the roles Doug and I now have. Like a lot of organizations, conversations and decisions take place and things get done without being recorded. There is nothing to look up, there is no "search" button to click on. Please don't expect an immediate answer to a decades old question, it seldom happens.

Moving on.....
I wasn't ducking the question. The best people to answer questions regarding old targets are Jim Kesser and Jim Fields (perhaps via Jackie Brown). Predictably, that's what happened. Jim Kesser weighed in, Jackie Brown saw the postings and called Jim Fields, and Jim called me.

Per Jim Fields, (this is a summary of our conversation and not a word for word transcription):
In 2011, Jim and Nancy agreed that Jim could have some of the targets from Oak Ridge that had been relocated to Tusco. The agreement included that Jim would host matches with the targets for 5 years and that would include WC events, after which OKC would own the targets. IHMSA reimbursed Fields for transportation expense from Tusco to OKC. OKCGC installed and maintains the targets at their expense. Those requirements have since been met and OKC now owns the targets. Hope that fills in the blanks.


*an amendment to a prior post...there was a WC charge of $1292 in a summary I posted. It was for additional insurance.

[i26963]

Melvin, I meant no disrespect, and apologize if it sounded that way.

All-
The reality is that many things have happened 2-20 years ago and pre-dates the roles Doug and I now have. Like a lot of organizations, conversations and decisions take place and things get done without being recorded. There is nothing to look up, there is no "search" button to click on. Please don't expect an immediate answer to a decades old question, it seldom happens.

Moving on.....
I wasn't ducking the question. The best people to answer questions regarding old targets are Jim Kesser and Jim Fields (perhaps via Jackie Brown). Predictably, that's what happened. Jim Kesser weighed in, Jackie Brown saw the postings and called Jim Fields, and Jim called me.

Per Jim Fields, (this is a summary of our conversation and not a word for word transcription):
In 2011, Jim and Nancy agreed that Jim could have some of the targets from Oak Ridge that had been relocated to Tusco. The agreement included that Jim would host matches with the targets for 5 years and that would include WC events, after which OKC would own the targets. IHMSA reimbursed Fields for transportation expense from Tusco to OKC. OKCGC installed and maintains the targets at their expense. Those requirements have since been met and OKC now owns the targets. Hope that fills in the blanks.


*an amendment to a prior post...there was a WC charge of $1292 in a summary I posted. It was for additional insurance.

Rich,
I didn’t take offense to your post! No apology necessary.
I was frustrated that I wasn’t getting my point across.
Thank you for getting an explanation out.
Good shooting
Melvin