Proposed New IHMSA Practical Hunter Classes

[Alvin]

I guess I'll wade into the waters on this one......What you're really doing is making Freestyle available in Field Pistol...okay...and putting Scopes on Production guns...which is kind of nice for us older guys that have a hard time with open sights now. But thinking that you're going to draw hunters into competition? Nope, that's not going to happen. You need more "competition shooters" who may also hunt, not the other way around. And calling it Practical Hunter Class? I would have to say NO! to that one. This is not hunting.....this is competition..plain and simple.

Actually, what happens when you add more categoies is you dilute the shooters even more. If you have a group of say, 15 shooters, they'll just shoot different categoies, but still the same number of guns. Instead of shooting a .22 entry for their second or third gun of the day, they might try Production Any Sight instead.

And let shooters use bi-pods or bags for the lower classes......bad idea, period!

Don't we have enough categoies available at the present time?? Do we need to fill every nitch?? I think it was Steve that wrote that they tried a division with just regular semi-autos and such.....after a year they still hadn't picked up one single member, just the same shooters that always shot, and they tried a different gun.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[volleyman]

The biggest problem we have is how to promote the sport. For the most part (air guns excepted) we are not using current commercial available handguns. When this sport started almost everyone was using a handgun they could buy at their local gun store on Saturday and take it to the range on Sunday and be competitive with others who had did the same thing. If you go to a large gun show now you will see very few new guns we normally shoot silhouette with. The few longer barrel handguns available are designed for hunting. While today’s handgun market is primarily the small semi-auto, that type of gun is not designed for long range accuracy.
We have two main options of who we promote the sport to. One is the collector of our older silhouette pistols, no longer in production such as the XP-100 and the Anschutz. Many of these guns are already in the hands of past and present silhouette shooters. Also the supply of older silhouette pistols shrinks over time. Another problem with this option is we will get little to no support from the handgun manufactures. While they appreciate the fact we are using guns they no longer make, they are not making any money from us by using their discontinued handguns. They are interested in how many new guns they can sell the next year. I have been at the last two Shot Shows and found this to be a common theme when discussing our sport with them.
This brings me to the second option of promoting our sport to new shooters with new/newer handguns. IHMSA does not have an unlimited budget for advertising. If we did, we would take out full page ads in every gun magazine and run commercials on all of the cable TV hunting and shooting shows. We try and keep our membership dues and the match fees as low as possible. We could increase the dues and fees and spend the extra on advertising, but I feel we might lose more members than we would gain. With a little to zero advertising budget, so what is the answer? We need to spend other people’s money. If a handgun manufacture sees we have a sport that uses a gun that they currently produce they are much more interested. We can convert that interest into promotion of our sport to the benefit of both parties. We get more shooters, they sell more guns! At this last Shot Show in Jan. I got many commitments from venders to either donate guns or to start or increase their advertising with IHMSA. I also talked to several gun writers and they all expressed interest in the new Practical Hunter classes. It is more interesting for them to do an article on a new sport than an old one.
If this is to grow/maintain our sport, much of the work will need to be done on the local level. We can supply some of the things needed to be successful, such as limited national advertising, web site, posters and other promotional items that can be put up at ranges and gun stores and gun shows. Local clubs and members will need to see that the promotional items are used. Local match directors and members are responsible to see that the new shooter has a safe and enjoyable time at the range shooting silhouette.

Steve Martens
VP IHMSA

[Boomer]

Hi Steve, glad to have you on the forums!

I dont disagree with what you are saying but I also dont think it is the whole answer either...

You are absolutely correct about the manufactures attitude towards the sport & making a profit but if I may... SASS is a shining example of the market meeting the demand. When I 1st started shooting SASS almost 20yrs ago there were almost no repro's available of old west firearms. Today even the obscure guns are reproduced. The market reacted to the demand & IMO it will again for IHMSA if the spark is reignited.

How do we reignite the spark? I wish I had a definitive answer on this as well. If I did I would be beating on the BOD's door but I believe it beings with an attitude, a mindset... A mindset that IHMSA will continue to grow & evolve to meet its changing needs.

I have much to say on this topic but the hour is late & I must be off to bed. Hopefully others will weigh in to develop this discussion further.

[volleyman]

I agree these classes are not the answer to all our problems, but they can get some of the manufactures back in our camp and maybe some new faces at our ranges. If our membership numbers rebounds up to the level of the SASS, I'm sure the manufactures will listen to our needs. I'm working with Crosman and testing their new 1701P Silhouette air pistol. They are interested in including information about our sport in the packaging of the new air pistol and on their blog/website. What we could use is a nicely done short video of an air pistol slhouette match. Any movie makers out there?
Most advertising promotions are very expensive and very risky if you don't have a lot of money to play with. This is low cost and we will not lose a lot of money if it does not work. I have asked for ideas on how to get more new members for the last 3 years as VP and I have yet to get one email. Jim Fields came up with the original idea, but in its first form it would have been shot down by the board. I think these classes meet Jim's idea of having additional classes for shooters to shoot scoped guns, but also gives IHMSA a new set of classes to promote to the manufactures and gun writers.
I think we need to look back at the history of the sport and see what made it popular enough for over 56000 people to have tried it at one time or another.
1. The new game in town. Hand gun silhouette will never be new again but we can add something new to the game.
2. Game shot on an even playing field with commonly available handguns. The sport has evolved for better or worst. Practical Hunter will bring out guns that appear "normal" to newer shooters.
3. A promoter of the sport with contacts. Mr. Gates (love him or hate him) could promote the sport. Still looking for that promoter.
4. A close relationship with the gun manufactures. We are working to restore that.

Steve Martens
VP IHMSA

[high standard 40]

I love IHMSA and will continue to support and promote it. I've had long and multiple conversations with many Region 2 shooters about growing our sport. I honestly don't think there is an answer to grow our sport in it's current form. The warm bodies are just not there. I heard the comment about the Practical Hunter category using guns that "look normal".
To the average handgun owner nothing we compete with "looks normal". In today's America if it does not fit in your pocket and have a high magazine capacity it's not normal. People who own handguns that would have any application to our sport are a miniscule percentage of gun owners and very few of them are interested in competitive shooting. Modern lifestyles are too fast paced. The future of our sport will depend on an infusion of new young shooters and virtually none of the young shooters would be interested in our game. There is not enough action, takes too much effort to master, and the guns they own are not ideally suited.

The SASS has enjoyed huge growth and factory support. I do however see it eventually suffering the same fate as IHMSA. Most of their shooters are older and as they fade out with age, so will the sport. My point is this. The continued strength of any sport is dependent upon incoming new blood to replace the older shooters who fade away. In our current society we don't have a pool to draw from. That's the reality.

For most of us who love this game, it's hard to understand why more people don't give us a try. The truth is society has changed. You can't fix that. I've been shooting Silhouette since 1980 and today's world is a very different place than it was back then. That's just the way it is.

Now before you judge me as having a defeatist attitude let me say that as a Match Director here in Louisiana (one of only two in our state) I have no intention of giving up. I will continue to soldier on and do everything I can to keep our sport alive. I've done so for years. I will be offering the new categories at our matches but I don't really expect it to do much to grow our numbers. There is a local internet forum based in my home town that is dedicated to the shooting sports in Louisiana. As soon as I discovered it I became an active poster there promoting IHMSA. I discovered that the common interest on that board is without exception geared to the "spray and pray" games. After two years I have yet to recruit a single active shooter. I've had a couple of people turn out and they have joined IHMSA and to them I am very grateful. But they are not local and are unable to attend our matches monthly.

So as far as answers to growing our sport I can only offer this. As the owner of a small business, I know that to be effective, you must present your sales pitch to your target audience (in my mind, new young shooters). We can produce the pitch......I am not sure there is an audience in today's world.

[19 Turkeys]

Steve,

You are forgetting one important component of IHMSA's skyrocketing growth in the late '70's until Elgin died. Elgin sold wonderful handguns for much less than your local gun store. Gun nuts will buy cheap guns. BTW, the first International at Idaho Falls had 1900 entries with only 4 disciplines, Big Bore Production, Standing, Unlimited & Revolver. We now have at least 24 disciplines and can field 600 entries. Al may very well have a point about more disciplines just carving the pie smaller.

I'll have more to say on marketing after I read our financial report in the March paper.

Steve W.

[high standard 40]

Steve,
Al may very well have a point about more disciplines just carving the pie smaller.
Steve W.

I agree with this. And the pie itself is getting smaller.

[volleyman]

To make bigger slices of pie we would need to drop classes. What classes do you propose to drop? As far as i know we have only dropped/combined one class in the history of IHMSA. That was small bore production semi-auto. Due to lack of entry’s we combined it with small bore production.
Everyone is going to suggest dropping classes they don't shoot. Freestyle shooter will say get rid of all the standing classes. Standing shooters will want to get rid of all the "lying down” classes. Open sight shooters will say we don't need scopes on guns. Scope shooters will say they can’t see open sights anymore. Aggregate shooters will say just keep the classes that count in the agg's. And what do you tell the shooter who spent $3000+ on the top of the line half-scale UAS gun that we are dropping half-scale and you now have a gun that won't take down full-size targets? If you start dropping classes you lose more shooters than you will ever gain by having bigger slices of pie.
I agree we all would like to have more competition in our local matches. I often shoot UAS classes as there are more entries in those classes and for the competition of the shoot-offs. The biggest competitor you have at most local matches is yourself. At local matches I’m pushing myself to get better agg’s, longer runs of perfect scores, and trying to improving my shooting in classes I don’t do well in.

Steve M.

[19 Turkeys]

To make bigger slices of pie we would need to drop classes. What classes do you propose to drop?

Stephen, read my post. I am not suggesting dropping/eliminating disciplines. I am saying that ADDING disciplines will slice the pie smaller.

Steve W.

[19 Turkeys]

The biggest competitor you have at most local matches is yourself.

& that is my point. If someone wants to shoot a Production Scoped Off Bags gun & it is safe as a match director I have no problem with that. But, why add a class? Just let them shoot the bloody gun! I have Small Bore rifles and Big Bore rifles at my matches. They are more than welcome, but I am not suggesting we approve rifles.

Steve W.