"Flop" stocks, Shooting Aids, and Rule Enforcement

[braud357]

I want to share a letter that I have sent to Allen Gaskin (Region 2 Director) giving him feedback on the Flop Stock, shooting, rule enforcement subject. I asked Allen to please forward a copy to Doug, Rich, the IHMSA Board, and also included Mr. Jim Fields. I ask that if any fellow members have thoughts or opinions on these matters to contact your state, regional, IHMSA President or board members and let your thoughts be known. See attachment !!!

IHMSA Letter.rtf

(43.52 KiB) Downloaded 252 times

[jmoore]

I am fully in agreement with this letter.
If there's anything less "traditional" or more of a "shooting aid", than a super high rise scope base (i.e., a Ken Light rail) then I don't know what it is. Except maybe for using a bolt action....
I should think the idea of "Unlimited" would be to advance the art of pistol shooting.
The rules as already written provide enough restrictions and there's plenty of folk who would have to "unbuild" what they've been using for some time.

For instance, a three year old set-up:

Given that the trigger guard on an AR is three inches below bore centerline, this hasty cobble won't make the proposed 2 1/2" fore end depth requirement. Honestly, the XP-100 is a "better" platform, but it isn't nearly as easy to swap barrels or add sights, etc. ARs are SO easy to build! Usually fairly inexpensive compared to a custom bolt gun. And you don't need to be a gunsmith to do it.

http://www.ihmsa.org/forum/download/file.php?id=997

Above is a link to one of Atomic Dogg's photos of another manually operated AR pistol with a "first gen" foam fore end. Mostly to illustrate that it's far easier to construct stocks and fore ends than scope mounts, etc.

I even made a couple of fore ends for TC's using nothing fancier than a pine 2"x4" and a router. Also fixing to be banned, even though it's a cheap and easy way to build a good Unlimited Standing gun without having to use the now defunct Ken Light mount. (Been meaning to take a photo or two of those for this very subject...)

[kdiver58]

I also fully agree with the content of the letter. I put together a Ruger charger for my wife and added a 3D printed forend to help with the fact she has small hands. As you can see the bottom is perfectly flat and in no way contours to her hand. Why would we want to make it harder for people to compete? Not everyone who competes is a burly handed man ..

[Roy 260]

The way I see the rule as written every gun,stock ,and grip is illegal as it is written and has been since 2007.I ask all board members to pass Mr Fields recommend change to go thru.

Roy Roberts
IHMSA# 56451

[braud357]

The way I see the rule as written every gun,stock ,and grip is illegal as it is written and has been since 2007.I ask all board members to pass Mr Fields recommend change to go thru.

Roy Roberts
IHMSA# 56451

I have spoken to Mr. Fields, and have asked him to amend his proposal. Under his proposal the Charger stock illustrated above will be illegal, because of the height measurement. This configuration is used by MANY shooters - myself included. I do not use the "Fields Flop" position - instead of resting the gun on top of my forearm, I grasp it much like you would a rifle stock. Due to his height to center-of-bore measurement - this stock will be illegal ! I make the simple statement - one size does not fit all !!! Enforce the rule "as written" - on a case by case basis. If the proposal passes, all of my flop stocks will be in violation of the height rule - by a small amount. Will I abide by the new rule and modify ALL of my guns - at this point of my "career" I simply do not know !!

[aggshooter]

The way I see the rule as written every gun,stock ,and grip is illegal as it is written and has been since 2007.I ask all board members to pass Mr Fields recommend change to go thru.

Roy Roberts
IHMSA# 56451

Please explain your statement. Why are all guns illegal?

[Roy 260]

Easy anything that fit any part of your Antony is ruled illegal. That being said how many one piece stocks or your grips and not made custom or factory that doesn’t have a palm swell on it or finger grooves they all fit the hand. What the difference between that and the concave that are all about the same that might fit one out of twenty shooters than finger groves that fit about everybody. Even a flat stock resting on the forearm is going to be illegal under the rule. We need to fix this rule for everybody

[aggshooter]

Easy anything that fit any part of your Antony is ruled illegal. That being said how many one piece stocks or your grips and not made custom or factory that doesn’t have a palm swell on it or finger grooves they all fit the hand. What the difference between that and the concave that are all about the same that might fit one out of twenty shooters than finger groves that fit about everybody. Even a flat stock resting on the forearm is going to be illegal under the rule. We need to fix this rule for everybody

What are you talking about? The forend rule is about forends. Grips aren't even mentioned. Have you actually read the rule? Have you read the article titled "Forend rule clarified by amendment"? Grips aren't mentioned in either one. The rule book has a section just on grips.....it pertains to production guns. Sheeesh......

[LOCKHART]

I just have to laugh at this. We have, what, maybe 300 members WORLD WIDE, and we are worried about if a fore end fits the contour of you leg,hand, etc? This organization has always been its own worst enemy! Maybe that's just what needs to happen, this outfit goes belly up. Damn, people!

[Roy 260]

Who know this time next year might be only 150