Unlimited Guns & Stock Configuration

[LOCKHART]

And, as long as I have been in IHMSA, it's been that way. I think sometimes we are our own worst enemies! Like when Remington brought out the 10" barrel XP-100 for Production. Man, the powers that be hit the roof! No way was that gonna happen. Why, it would make TC Contenders obsolete overnight. So, thanks to our great foresight, Remington just quit making XP-100's of any type! I don't care that it might have put TC "out of business", it wouldn't have anyway. The introduction of Freedom Arms didn't put Ruger out of business ( just in the silhouette game ). I think the idea of any sport should be to advance the rules and equipment. I have been doing this for forty years, now, and I think this is gonna be my last year. I'm turning 75 in October, and it's getting harder and harder for me to get up and move to the next position. It was great shooting all this time, in a wonderful sport, but the bull**** just keeps getting deeper. Who in hell CARES if a foreend is turned a certain way, etc? Damn, guys, we are "ruling" ourselves to death! Off my soapbox now.

[260 Striker]

In the early days of IHMSA and into the 90s all rules were strictly enforced. Guns were always checked and weighed to make sure they were legal. Then IHMSA slowed down and most ranges didn't even perform gun checks. IHMSA was then a shoot for fun sport. Now it seems we are going back to watching for every rule infraction. I too have shot for 40 years and just had a heart attack so not sure how many shooting years I have left. Sure wish this sport had stayed a shoot for fun sport. Too many people getting way uptight about every little rule. It seems people are worried about a competitor having an edge over them instead of honing their own shooting skills. Remember this is just a game and not life and death.

[260 Striker]

Went back and reread rule Section VI: Handguns then B. Unlimited to get clarification on the subject of this topic. I must say I got more confused by some of the comments in this forum topic and the way the rule is written. Seems like a big conflict.

The ruled says:
10. A) Custom stocks and fore ends are allowed provided they are not configured in such a way to act as a shooting aid (i.e. specifically contoured to fit body anatomy)

Now here is the problem I see. If a shooter has a stock with finger grooves or a thumb hole stock then that stock has been configured to his/her anatomy. Years ago a company made an unlimited stock with a stud type grip that could then be covered with some type of filler and then gripped to conform to his/her hand. Layne Simpson had a big article on the 7 BR cartridge and showed pictures of his custom gripped XP.

I presently shoot a Savage Striker that I ground down the stock to meet the old weight limit. In doing so, I added finger grooves so does that mean my stock now fits my anatomy??? Some custom stocks have a flared grip that is made to fit up against the shooters hip. If any changes like this are considered illegal then only XPs with factory nylon stocks would be considered to NOT have been configured with anatomical shooting aid changes. So exactly where do we draw the line which modification do or do not fit a shooter's anatomy? Enforcing the current rules would probably ban 90+ percent of custom unlimited stocks. Since these type stocks have been used for years will all those shooters have to change to stocks with no finger grooves, flared sides and/or ban thumb hole stocks?

A previous suggestion would solve these issues. Design a box to hold unlimited guns (iron sight and scoped) and if the gun fits in the box and makes weight then it is legal. Also saying a stock can be shot in one position but not in another is just opening a can of worms.

When rules are written or changed they should be made as simple as possible to avoid confusion. Rules should also keep up with current innovations. After all that is why this category is called Unlimited.

[Roy 260]

Jim is right on the money with his comments

[jmoore]

I could live with a "fits the box and makes weight" rule without all the micro managing of configurations. It would be not unlike IDPA, etc., except scaled up.

Given that Free Pistols have been allowed for a long time with their invariably custom contoured grips, not allowing tweaks to fore stocks seems ridiculous. (If perfect scores get monotonous then maybe restrict all Unlimited shooting to 1/2 or 1/5 scale? Sort of like the NRA reducing the sizes of the scoring rings years back.) I do like the various UAS shoot-offs, though.

[Roy 260]

Phillip, the rules are not fingering you out at all. It is looking more less at the flop position. You would have to attend the WCC lately to see just exactly what is going on and happening. As far as a curved forearm, look at the BF's. They are curved, but this is not the issue, the issue lays with the on going flop stock configuration. As said, you need to attend the next WCC and see for your self what is taking place. No, it is not about running shooters off, its about keeping everyone on the same level. If I a fended you by stating to this post, then I am sorry for it. But in the same token, would it be fair for a shooter to rest his firearm on the top of his boot shooting creedmoor position? Would it a fend you for a shooter to use a bi-pod on the end of his forearm? How about a benchrest to shoot all disciplines? What you are saying this may run shooters off as well.

Bruce, we are good, and your comments are appreciated. I am not angry at anyone - I am going to continue shooting what I have no matter what the outcome of this is. My life situation has changed; I have recently retired and realize that I will probably never be able to afford another trip to the Internationals (last one attended was 2004 !) The shooters in Louisiana that shoot flop hold their guns pretty much the same way that I do, so I think that no one here is violating the rules. I wish that they would leave the dimensions alone, but I have no say in that decision. We will continue to encourage shooters to shoot with us, but our matches are poorly attended, and our shooter base is, sadly said - OLD ! All this being said - I have no plans to "chop-up" my fore ends if any new rules deem them dimensionally illegal. I will just shoot for the fun of it, which is what we all should be doing - and we do not turn shooters away !