Contradicting Rules

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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby IHMSA80x80 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:14 am

When I first started shooting Big Bore, the only gun I had was a 14" Contender in .30-30. In the summer heat and humidity we have (same ranges aggshooter shot at), my smallish hands would get very sweaty. With that smooth wood grip on the TC, I was close to losing that gun with every shot, the way it twisted around. The solution was to use a glove, a baseball batters glove with the finger tip cut out. It absorbed the sweat and gave me positive control over the gun's recoil. It also prevented the gun from gouging skin off my trigger finger with every shot.

LOCKHART wrote:You got sweaty hands? Deal with it. If you use a glove and it absorbs the sweat and it allows you to shoot better scores, the glove is AIDING your shooting. This ain't rocket science here.


Sweaty hands? Deal with it? That is how I dealt with it. The glove is NOT aiding my shooting, dude, it is making it safer. Had the rules prevented using a glove, I probably would have just stuck with the rimfire game. What do you want me to do, grow larger hands? Shoot only in cold weather? What is your rocket science suggestion on how I should deal with it?
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby 260 Striker » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:04 am

Interesting comments here about slippery guns being a safety issue which I totally agree but when I mentioned allowing rubberizing grips on unlimited guns to prevent slipping that was not accepted. Aren't we talking out of both sides of our face here? A slippery gun is a safety issue. Many of the U-guns are big boomers and really move around in a hand when fired. Whether a grip is rubberized (Pachmayrs or Hogues are OK) or a glove is used, or better yet when a glove AND rubberized grip is used, then we have a better hold on our guns. It is bad enough that our rules contradict but now we have discussions on this forum that even contradict. I really don't care if we talk about sweaty hands or heavy recoiling guns, having a better grip on a gun either by a rubberized grip or a glove is a safety issue. I have seen way too many Ruger 44 Super Blackhawks with wood grips almost flip out of a shooters hand when they were shooting. We called them on the guns coming over center but the shooters then had to use a death grip to keep them down. In the end, I don't think a rubber grip or a shooters glove is going to beat me in a match. It is the skill of the shooter so I don't worry about those things. Now if his gun is jumping around in his/her hand and I am next to them, then I would say something. Food for thought but in the end, nothing will change!!!!!!
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby aggshooter » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:02 pm

LOCKHART wrote:You got sweaty hands? Deal with it. If you use a glove and it absorbs the sweat and it allows you to shoot better scores, the glove is AIDING your shooting. This ain't rocket science here.


Wow. Your response is appalling :-q :-q :-q

It ranks right up there with:
"Real men don't shoot freestyle"
" 22's are only for women and children"
"Jacketed bullets are for lazy shooters"
"You need to shoot a 44 unless you're some kind of sissy"

Hard to believe your local matches aren't swamped with shooters (sarcasm)

Beyond that, I got nothing.......

In case any newbies are reading this, IHMSA rules have allowed a thin glove on the shooting hand for over 30 years with numerous articles, discussions, and clarifications over what constitutes a protective glove (like the allowed batting glove) as opposed to something with straps, brace, etc that stiffens the wrist (not allowed). It hasn't, and isn't, actually an issue.
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby LOCKHART » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:17 pm

The PAST gloves are allowed, which I use, as my right hand has arthritis from 37 years of shooting the big boomers, and yes, they ARE a big shooting aid for ME! PS: Hope this revelation isn't too appalling.
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby 35isit » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:04 am

Leaving the gloves out of it. The main reason you can "rubberize" an unlimited gun with a Pachmyer forend was because Elgin Gates made money from it. There are no Pachmyer forends for a MOA, RPM or XP-100. Making something out of rubber to fit one is illegal. The same as taking a checkering tool to a legal wood or some other composite forend. If Pachmyer had made forends for them in the early days of IHMSA and Elgin could have sold them through the paper. You can bet your sweet bippy they would be legal today. My two cents.
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby braud357 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:11 am

My comments on this, and other rules issues - is this. Earlier in my IHMSA experience, I now consider myself to have been a "rules Nazi". I took the rule book for its word, and on many occasions called people on rules violations. After the passage of many years, I now realize that I should have been encouraging people to shoot, not aggravating them with rules interpretations. A particular case-in-point - at a state championship match I noticed a new shooter shooting a Dan Wesson who had solved the problem of his red insert front sight blade - he had it installed backwards ! Seeing this (in my mind) as a clear violation of the "form and finish / as manufactured rule, I informed him of the "violation". He did not understand what he was doing wrong, and became a bit irate. I informed him that if he did not "fix" it, he might be disqualified. Well, I really made an impression on him - I never saw him at a match again ! All I accomplished was driving away a shooter - who was he harming anyway ? I understand the intent of the rules, but to call foul because of a non-factory screw or a backwards sight blade borders on nit-picking. I would rather have a paying competitor on the line than a empty shooting position. I feel that the "rubberized" fore end rule, and others like it - have driven many shooters away from our sport. A personal case in point. I attended the Internationals in Fort Stockton, and had a new-to-me XP100, with a center-grip H-S Precision stock. I had a cyst in my shooting hand (later removed), that recoil was hitting. I , without considering the rule, had installed a small piece of foam rubber to the stock to protect the affected area. Mike Dewey was installing one of his fine triggers in my XP when he told me that I had better remove that piece of foam rubber, or my gun might not pass inspection. I had never considered it as a violation of the "rubberizing" rule, but realized that it could be considered as a violation. So, there you go - did it enhance the accuracy of the gun - NO ! Did it give me a competitive advantage - NO ! We should all be more concerned with getting and keeping shooters in our game, and not drive them away with rules technicalities ! My $.02 ! Philip Braud IHMSA #13794 Louisiana State Director
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby 260 Striker » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:16 pm

Philip, I agree 100%
Back in the day, our club used to offer prize money so we (ME) were a rule Nazi when we checked in guns. I know I ticked off several shooters with nit picks. How about a 44 DW with a Pachmayr that was 1/2 ounce over weight!!!!!! Made him change his grip.
Now we don't even check guns and I have not heard anyone complain or file a protest. We just get together and shoot.
I'm not saying rules aren't needed, at least for local matches, but shooters might get called on issues at regional or internationals that the local MDs overlook.
I guess I started this string more as a concern that we, me, the general membership cannot get rule changes. I personally have submitted several proposals and they disappeared with no comment. When contradictions are found we cannot get them fixed. Good example, PH allows ported guns but regular Production guns can't use them. Make no sense.
Our organization is stagnating for some reasons. Some good changes have been made in the past few years but there is room for improvement.
I sure don't want our sport to go away but can't see a glimmer of hope either.
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Re: Contradicting Rules

Postby LOCKHART » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:23 pm

As a former match director at CTSA in New Braunfels for ten years (1985-1995), I agree with Phillip. Too damn many silly rules. I've seen shooters disqualified for having a gun 1/2 ounce overweight! The Dan Wesson Mk-40 .357 supermag is an example. These guns were right on the weight limit, and some of the factory grips were made of a little denser wood and would put them overweight. Was this the fault of the shooter? No, but I've seen competitors disqualified for it. This is nitpicking to the extreme. But it happened.
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